DENVER — The Justice Department is battling to save a federal law that makes it illegal to lie about being a war hero.
A federal appeals court in California and a federal district court in Denver have both ruled the Stolen Valor Act is unconstitutional under the First Amendment, which protects freedom of speech.
Government lawyers in California have asked the appeals court to reconsider its ruling. Prosecutors in Colorado say they also will file an appeal.
The law makes it a crime punishable by up to a year in jail to falsely claim to have won a military medal.
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It needs to stand and it needs to be prosecuted.
"There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people"
Howard Zinn
"A nation is not conquered until the hearts of its
women are on the ground."
Traditional Cheyenne saying
It's not a matter of free speech. It's a matter of fraud.
INSANITY IS NOT A PLEA. IT'S A WAY OF LIFE.
Some hearty knaves and simple fools,
Some apish and pragmatic mules,
Some servile acquiescing fools,
These, these comprise a congress.
When Jove resolved to send a curse,
And all the woes of life rehearse,
Not plague, not famine, but much worse,
He cursed us with a congress.
from the Revolutionary War
Wonder what AceBass' thoughts are on this?
A couple of years ago, a Republican committee staff director told me candidly (and proudly) what the method was to all this obstruction and disruption. Should Republicans succeed in obstructing the Senate from doing its job, it would further lower Congress’s generic favorability rating among the American people. By sabotaging the reputation of an institution of government, the party that is programmatically against government would come out the relative winner.If you could reason with religious people there'd be no religious people. -House
-Mike Lofgren, 28 years as a staffer on the Republican House and Senate budget and other committees, often dealing with national security and defense issues
Its an interesting issue to me. Does the person have to make a claim for some kind of benefit? If not, I don't get why lying itself should be a crime. I understand why I would not like someone who I caught in this lie. But if its just a lie, not someone seeking vet benefits like healthcare, I'm not sure I want it to be a crime to lie. Its disgusting sure, but should someone go to jail for this. I don;t think so. Anyone who would lie about being in the military is probably a jerk, but a criminal, I don;t think so. I don;t know the law, so I can;t give a legal opinion on it, but from my gut, unless someone is trying to defraud someone, I just don't see why we need to waste the criminal court's time with this.Originally Posted by Christine
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room.
I stand behind this measure that makes lying about one's military service punishable. As I have stated before, it's these kinds of lies that gains innocent ppl's confidence in a person who says that they served in the military and or what they did while in the service. It's the same with civilians trusting cops who wears the uniform. Civilians who also trust the military uniform. The uniform wearer who has taken the oath to serve and defend this country. The uniform wearer who is registered as honorable because of their service record. That's a line that can't be fucking crossed by a bunch of lying ass pretenders!!
Fuck a bunch of free speech bullshit at this level. I remember a time when I was young and sure the hell got into a lot of trouble for lying .... or even thinking about lying. That would have gotten my face slapped off or my ass beaten. How many fucking times politicians and Corp pigs lies to Congress and walks free?? Beaucoup, that's how many times! That's why our society is rotting to shit right before our eyes. LIES! If there isn't any kind of honorable standard to hold ourselves to, then we are truly fucked as a society ... in which I feel that's just where we are now-a-days. I'd like to see some real justice served so we can start holding our heads a little higher again. I'm not holding my breath tho.
I do, however, appreciate the DoJ taking a stand on this measure. It's not often I say any good things about the DoJ anymore ... but this time ... they get a fully extended thumbs up.
I Bring a Backbone of FirePower for Potential Peace ~ Scout****************************************************************************
**The Joke is On Us True Progressives**
6/12 - Romney's record at Bain "Sterling"~ praised Bill Clinton
From 'the President's Club':
*After Nixon died, Clinton compared the death with the loss of his mother
*Clinton came to rely on Nixon’s advice
*Nixon ingratiated himself with so many of his successors, particularly Mr. Clinton.
*George H.W. Bush’s ... relationship with Bill Clinton has grown so close
*Clinton is now referred to in the Bush family as the “Brother From Another Mother”
*Mr. Clinton / George W. Bush, who have become unexpectedly close and also worked on joint endeavors
I can't under any circumstance take a position against free speech, but I'm not sure that free speech is the issue here. If a person is trying to commit a fraud, like obtain a benefit, then I think they are already in violation of the law, so regardless of what they are lying about, its still lying to steal, so its fraud and criminal. If you are talking about just someone lying to make themselves seem more likable, than I don;t agree. I feel differently about someone doing so to get a job, but then its more of the fraud thing. So if you put on a resume that you served and did not, or put it in a voters guide and you did not serve, to me thats fraud. Why should it matter if you lied about going to med school or being in the army if you are applying to be a doctor at a hospital. The lie itself is fraud and you should be fired and prosecuted.
That said, a guy in a bar trying to pick up a girl and he says he is a soldier going off to war tomorrow and wants the one last fling, while he is scum, I'm sure I don't support a criminal sentence for this guy. Lots of guys in NYC pretend to be firemen to get girls. Its disgusting and an insult to the brave men who do run into burning buildings, but its not criminal. to me its about the benefit side. Are you stealing the public's money, are you getting a job you would not otherwise get, well thats easy. But are you doing it so your neighbor will lend you his lawnmower or so the girl will go home with you, its in bad taste, but its not criminal.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the war room.
Jonathan Turley, a professor at George Washington University Law School, said the Stolen Valor Act answers no real legal need but was written for political reasons, so lawmakers could show they are on the side of real heroes by punishing impostors.
"There's already a considerable deterrent for people who are engaged in this kind of conduct," he said. "Many of these people are charged with fraud. If someone is only wearing medals without seeking any form of gain, it becomes highly questionable."
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