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Icky
11-20-2007, 04:15 PM
Justices to Hear Gun Control Case





By DAVID STOUT ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Published: November 20, 2007
WASHINGTON, Nov. 20 — The Supreme Court ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) agreed today to consider an issue that has divided politicians, constitutional scholars and ordinary citizens for decades: whether the Second Amendment to the Constitution protects an individual right to “keep and bear arms.”
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Case Touches a 2nd Amendment Nerve ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) (November 13, 2007)




The justices agreed to hear an appeal from the District of Columbia, whose gun-control law — one of the strictest in the nation — was struck down by the lower federal courts earlier this year. The case will probably be argued in the spring.


The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit struck down sections of the Washington gun law that make it exceedingly difficult to legally own a handgun, that prohibit carrying guns without a license even from one room to another, and that require lawfully owned firearms to be kept unloaded.
The Second Amendment, surely one of the most disputed passages in the United States Constitution and one whose punctuation is not always rendered consistently, states this in its entirety: “A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”
The Supreme Court has never directly addressed the basic meaning of that passage. When it last considered a Second Amendment case, in 1939, it addressed a somewhat peripheral question, holding that a sawed-off shotgun was not one of the “arms” that the Founding Fathers had in mind.
Today’s announcement that the justices would take the District of Columbia case was no surprise, given that the District of Columbia Circuit’s interpretation of the Second Amendment conflicts with the interpretation of nine other federal appeals courts, and differences between the circuits often steer issues to the high court.
But the argument, and the outcome, will be among the most eagerly awaited in years, with the stakes potentially very high for lawmakers and gun enthusiasts alike. Whichever way the justices rule, gun control is likely to remain a hot political issue, in the 2008 campaigns and beyond.
The mayor of Washington, Adrian M. Fenty ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), whose city was sometimes called the “murder capital” of the country at the height of the crack epidemic and the accompanying bloodshed, vowed earlier this year to seek reinstatement of the city’s gun law. “We have made the determination that this law can and should be defended, and we are willing to take our case to the highest court in the land,” he said.
The willingness, indeed eagerness, to have the case heard by the Supreme Court is one thing the opponents of the District of Columbia’s gun law agree with. “The Bill of Rights does not end at the District of Columbia’s borders, and it includes the right to keep and bear arms,” said Alan Gura, lead counsel for those challenging the law.
“After three decades of failure trying to control firearms in the District, it’s time for law-abiding city residents to be able to defend themselves in their homes,” Mr. Gura said in a statement. “We are confident the Supreme Court will vindicate that right in Washington, D.C., and across the nation.”
The plaintiffs complain that the 31-year-old Washington, D.C., law — which virtually bans handguns and requires that all shotguns and rifles be kept unloaded and either trigger-locked or disassembled at all times — makes no exception for legitimate self-defense considerations.
Given the fact that the District law affects shoulder weapons as well as pistols and revolvers, there would appear to be a wide range of findings for the justices to consider. The case accepted today is “not about machine guns or so-called assault weapons or concealed carry,” Robert A. Levy, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, a prominent libertarian research organization, said in a statement today. “It’s about the right to possess ordinary, garden-variety handguns in the home for self-defense.”
The title of the case is Heller v. District of Columbia, after Dick Heller, a District of Columbia resident who works as an armed security guard and is one of six plaintiffs recruited by Mr. Levy. None of the plaintiffs has asserted a right to carry their weapons outside their homes.
“I want to be able to defend myself and my wife from violent criminals, and the Constitution says I have a right to do that by keeping a gun in my home,” Mr. Heller said in a statement. “The police can’t be everywhere, and they can’t protect everyone all the time. Responsible gun ownership is a basic right we have as American citizens.”
Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) said during his Senate confirmation hearing that the 1939 Second Amendment decision left “very open” the question of whether the Second Amendment protected an individual or a collective right to bear arms. The current lineup of justices is considered relatively conservative, which might give hope to opponents of gun control. But lawyers and other court-watchers who try to predict outcomes in advance do so at their peril.
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Xena
11-20-2007, 04:43 PM
This should be interesting. I'm not going to place a bet either way.

dr.strangelove
11-20-2007, 05:45 PM
This should be interesting. I'm not going to place a bet either way.


I'm going to say individual right 6-3.

SouthernDem2006
11-20-2007, 11:30 PM
I'm going to say individual right 6-3.

I agree but by a larger margin.

Crazy Guggenheim
11-21-2007, 02:39 AM
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Supreme Court to rule on right to keep handguns at home



Jacquelyn Martin / Associated Press
D.C. Mayor Adrian M. Fenty, foreground, speaks at a news conference following the Supreme Court’s announcement that it will rule on whether the city can ban handguns.


Justices will review an appeals court decision that struck down a 31-year-old Washington D.C., ban on pistols.
By David G. Savage, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
November 21, 2007
WASHINGTON -- The Supreme Court set the stage Tuesday for a historic ruling on whether the fiercely debated 2nd Amendment protects the rights of Americans to keep handguns at home.

The justices said they would review an appeals court decision that struck down a 31-year-old ban on handguns in Washington, D.C. The case will be heard early next year and decided by next summer.

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While outright bans on the private possession of guns are rare, many cities and states regulate firearms. If the high court rules in favor of gun owners, the decision could open the door to challenges to regulations and restrictions on firearms across the nation.

In their appeal, District of Columbia officials say their ban on easily concealed handguns dates back to 1858. And they argue handguns are involved in most violent crime. Under the city ordinance passed in 1976, residents may keep shotguns or hunting rifles at home, but these weapons must be disassembled or have trigger locks. Handguns are illegal, except in the hands of police officers.

Six city residents challenged the ordinance as unconstitutional and said it denied them the right to have "functional firearms" at home for self defense.

The 2nd Amendment is among the best known parts of the Constitution. Its familiar words say "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." These words seem to protect the right to have a gun, just as the 1st Amendment protects the rights to freedom of speech and the free exercise of religion.

In the past, many judges have dismissed the 2nd Amendment as archaic and limited to protecting a state's authority to maintain "a well-regulated militia," a phrase from the opening clause of the amendment. The 2nd Amendment's full text is: "A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Although it has been hotly debated for years, the 2nd Amendment has had remarkably little impact in the courts. The ruling in March that struck down the D.C. handgun ban marked the first time a federal court had declared that a gun law violated the 2nd Amendment.

In its only ruling dealing directly with the 2nd Amendment, the Supreme Court in 1939 upheld a man's conviction for transporting a sawed-off shotgun across state lines and said these weapons had nothing to do with maintaining an effective state militia.

In their appeal, lawyers for D.C. cite this 1939 decision and argue that the words and history of the amendment show it was concerned with state militias, not individuals with guns. For example, the phrase "bear arms" is a military term, they say. The amendment "does not protect a right to own a gun for purely private uses," they maintain.

Crazy Guggenheim
11-21-2007, 02:56 AM
From the NRA:

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dr.strangelove
11-21-2007, 10:07 AM
I agree but by a larger margin.

I expect Breyer, Souter and Ginsberg will hold the traditional liberal view for individual rights. I am pretty sure that Alito, Scalia and Thomas will support the majority of the federal circuits and the "collective rights" theory.

Roberts, Kennedy Stevens are somewhat wild cards on this issue. Stevens is an old school liberal. When he was building his views, the liberal view was collective rights, which has changed since Roe v. Wade. I am not sure that he will fall in with the other three progressive justices. I would bet that Kennedy will join on the individual rights concept. In my mind, thats five, but I think roberts may leave the conservative side and join the liberal side in asserting an individual right.

Its a strange issue. True conservatives readers of the constitution like Scalia and Thomas fall in the collective rights side, which is certainly not the side the NRA supports. While true progressive readers of the constitution like Breyer and Ginsberg support the NRA's view, which is far from what teh constitution says, but is how it should be applied in modern society.

I'll be interested to see how it plays out.

My real concern is whether they classify an individual right to own firearms as a fundamental right, which changes greatly how the government can limit the right. I think, like other fundamental rights, this one can be limited, but limitations should be kept to a minimum.

I support a background check process, but not anything so rigorous that it unduly burdens a person's right to own a weapon. I support similar restrictions on gun rights that I would on abortion rights. I would not support an undue burden of either right.

I am also wondering if the Court will support my view of the Miller case. In 1939, I think the SCOTUS actually found an individual right, but failed to ever say it explicitly. The government in Miller objected that Miller lacked individual standing to raise a second amendment defense since it was a right held only by well regulated state militias (this in a nutshell is the collective rights theory). SCOTUS rejected the defense on the merits because it could find no evidence had been offered that Miller's weapon, a sawed off shotgun, had any use that could be related to a militia.

The procedural process is interesting though. In order for the court to discuss the merits of the defense, first they must have decided that he had the standing to raise the defense. I think the Miller court had to find an individual right in order to reach the decision on the defense.

I am interested to see where the administration comes down. I bet they fight the individual right and push the collective right theory. they don;t want an armed citizenry. They want to be ale to scare people with the threat of police power. I am wondering how you SD, and our police officer members, feel about this as well. You are far more likely to encounter an individual right to gun ownership than I am. You said you agree with the holding I predicted, but is that how you would decide the issue?

LiberalInPortland
11-21-2007, 10:52 AM
Indeed they don't want an armed citizenry. I think Iraq has proven that even with a modern high powered military, you can not successfully occupy a hostile territory.

Me? I'll stick with the notion that citizenship automatically makes you a valid militia member. It's just that Canada hasn't invaded in a while so this viewpoint has faded from the public mind.

leftysergeant
12-29-2007, 06:08 AM
In general, I do not see the neoclowns wanting too many armed people, especially the poor or lower middle class. Too afraid that if the ecconomy gets bad enough, we might decide we need to kill and eat the rich to survive.