$4 Generics From Wal-Mart

[Icky]

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New Wal-Mart Rx: $4 generic drugs


Retailer raises stakes in pharmacy battle

By Sandra Jones and Bruce Japsen
Tribune staff reporters
Published September 22, 2006

In an aggressive move to win over consumers that also threatens to shake up the $250 billion pharmaceutical business, Wal-Mart Stores Inc. said Thursday that it plans to test the selling of many generic prescription drugs for the unusually low price of $4 per month.


This is INSANE! It's a gimmick and it may be ILLEGAL!! (Perhaps Dr.Strangelove can advise me on this?)

In the article they mention selling drugs such as Metformin and Albuterol for $4.00 for a one month supply.

I KNOW for a fact that Albuterol costs more than $4.00/Unit. MORE Than TWICE that, actually...
---------
Here's what I think they are up to:
They will offer some of the older, NOT as commonly used generics, BUT not the Newer generics... This will still help a LOT of people!!! They will absorb the profit losses by selling more plastic baubles and shiney objects... They will RAISE the prices of the other drugs (Generic or Brand) in order to offset some of the losses, too....
THEN, over time, they will cancel the program... raise their prices UP from $4.00 back to where the prices should be... And NOT Lower the previously raised prices...
---------

But I'm not sure about that... :confused:

This doesn't make any sense. To fill an Rx COSTS about $10.00. There have been many many studies conducted by various Out of State, Independant firms (to determing the costs of filling Rx's - to inform State Medicaid Programs of the expense involved)... and they generally show Rx's cost anywhere from $8.00 to $12.00 to fill... (depending on region).

COST! This is not including a "Profit". Just bare bones COST! Call it $10.00 to make the math easy.

There is the time involved in collecting the Rx... Data entry of Rx (which may include a digitally scanned image)... the pay for the technician to find the med, count it, and label the bottle... the label itself costs money... the Ink in the printer costs money... the bag in which you put the Rx costs money... the staple you use to attache the receipt to the bag costs money... the PHARMACISTS!!!! Has to check and verify everything (they are Expensive!)... THEN, the customer has to sign a paper to get their medicine (take time... and time ain't free!)... Then, IF the patient wants to use a Credit Card or Debit Card, that takes more time PLUS there are FEES involved with running through those cards (and we are NOT allowed to charge the patient more for the RX to cover the fees, as, many times an insurance company determines what we charge the patient and we are not allowed to augment that price in any way!)....

You see? It costs far more than $4.00 to fill an Rx... Simply can't be done.

[webhead]

But Wal*Mart gets the customer into the store to buy profitable goods.

I would say $4 Rx is a loss-leader.

[KyndCulture]

That's INSANE...

I know that my meds are well over 30.00 each just cost, not the 50 the pharmacy charges my insurance.


Fuck walmart. I still will never darken their door.

[webhead]

NPR Radio news just said Target will match Wal-Mart prices.

Rx price war.

[Icky]

That's INSANE...

I know that my meds are well over 30.00 each just cost, not the 50 the pharmacy charges my insurance.


Fuck walmart. I still will never darken their door.
I agree with your attitude toward WalMart... BUT!

Lemme educate you on the Pharmacy/Insurance relationship.

Pharmacy fills Rx and Files the Claim electronically.
Pharmacy tells insurance company what it would normally charge a cash paying customer for the meds (Usual and Customary Price ( U&C) )

Insurance Company says, "Tough Shit! We ain't payin' that! We will pay you this instead." (which is usually only about 12-15%)

Insurance companies determine exactly what my profit margin can be. I (the Pharmacy) have absolutely no say in how much I get paid.

So, 'the pharmacy' can charge the insurance company all it wants, but the insurance company does not pay that much.

If the medicine actually costs the pharmacy $30... The insurance company will say, "Collect $10.00 from the customer (copay) and IN THREE WEEKS we will send you a check for the difference of $24.00"

So, in THREE WEEKS I will make about $4.00 from the sale....

Nice, huh?

[KyndCulture]

Icky that seriously sucks!!!!


I take Paxil CR and it's EXTREMELY expensive for a months worth.... 100.00 or more if you were to buy it. But I bet you get jack on that in profit.

[Zemo]

Marketing gimmick.

[Icky]

THIS JUST IN!

BONDURANT PHARMACY WILL NOT BE MATCHING WAL-MART OR TARGET PRICES!!!!!

[KyndCulture]

THIS JUST IN!

BONDURANT PHARMACY WILL NOT BE MATCHING WAL-MART OR TARGET PRICES!!!!!


HAHAHAHAHA good for you..... bet they got these cheap ass drugs from canada or china.


LOL

[USA#1]

Trick or Treat !!!

Wal-Mart is saying that they will allow 291 Generic Drugs to be purchased for $4.00 ....

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ... The Jokes on THE CONSUMER --- SUCKERS !!!!!!

There are Thousands of Generics on the Market ... Slight of Hand ... Which Cup is the Red Ball Under ??? And Target is copying the program ... Can I split my sides laughing !!!

HA HA HA HA !!!

It's a TRICK !!!

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Over the years, FDA has approved several thousand generic drugs that have been used successfully by millions of patients. The use of these products has resulted in substantial saving to consumers and the U.S. Government (through Medicare, Medicaid and other government health care programs).

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

YOUR BEING FOOLED OUT OF YOUR BRAINS BABY !!!

They're putting their $5.50 a month supply medicines at $4.00
Wooopdi Fucking Doo !!!

[Icky]

Trick or Treat !!!

Wal-Mart is saying that they will allow 291 Generic Drugs to be purchased for $4.00 ....

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ... The Jokes on THE CONSUMER --- SUCKERS !!!!!!

There are Thousands of Generics on the Market ... Slight of Hand ... Which Cup is the Red Ball Under ??? And Target is copying the program ... Can I split my sides laughing !!!

HA HA HA HA !!!

It's a TRICK !!!

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

YOUR BEING FOOLED OUT OF YOUR BRAINS BABY !!!

They're putting their $5.50 a month supply medicines at $4.00
Wooopdi Fucking Doo !!!
USA#!... PLEASE read the comments I have made on this subject...

ABSOLUTE COST (NO PROFIT AT ALL!!!) To fill an Rx is approx $10.00
EVEN IF WalMart were getting their meds for free, they would still need to charge approx $10 just to break even! So... EVEN IF they were getting their meds for free, they are still LOSING approx $6 per Rx...
It's a trick to get you into their store and spend your money on Other Things!
It's a trick, alright. And I suspect an illegal one. Can't wait to join a class-action lawsuit against them! They're (hopefully) gonna be paying ME for this little 'Trick'.

[webhead]

USA#!... PLEASE read the comments I have made on this subject...

ABSOLUTE COST (NO PROFIT AT ALL!!!) To fill an Rx is approx $10.00
EVEN IF WalMart were getting their meds for free, they would still need to charge approx $10 just to break even! So... EVEN IF they were getting their meds for free, they are still LOSING approx $6 per Rx...
It's a trick to get you into their store and spend your money on Other Things!
It's a trick, alright. And I suspect an illegal one. Can't wait to join a class-action lawsuit against them! They're (hopefully) gonna be paying ME for this little 'Trick'.
Loss leaders!

[USA#1]

A Store Can Have Loss Leaders like Webhead Said ... and Albuterol has been on the market years and is a generic so the costs are low Icky.

It's a trick ... Let's say for shits and giggles that there are 5,000 generics on the market.

291 / 5000 = 0.058%

So close to 6% are going to be filled of all the GENERIC Rx Out There. (If anyone can find the real number of Generics on the Market that would be a better start ... Maybe I'll ask my Pharmacist)

Say Grandmom has a monthly perscrition bill of $ 400 ... She's only going to save about 6% ... Cuz that's all the drugs that will QUALIFY for the PROGRAM !!! They're playing the statistics.

They are trying to get market share !!! Pure and Simple it's a TRICK !!!

[USA#1]

Oh and another thing ... Wal-Mart also at the bottom (in little tiny print...) did say it reserves the right to change the formulary at any time. Sell too much and off it could go bye bye.

[Icky]

A Store Can Have Loss Leaders like Webhead Said ... and Albuterol has been on the market years and is a generic so the costs are low Icky.

It's a trick ... Let's say for shits and giggles that there are 5,000 generics on the market.

291 / 5000 = 0.058%

So close to 6% are going to be filled of all the GENERIC Rx Out There. (If anyone can find the real number of Generics on the Market that would be a better start ... Maybe I'll ask my Pharmacist)

Say Grandmom has a monthly perscrition bill of $ 400 ... She's only going to save about 6% ... Cuz that's all the drugs that will QUALIFY for the PROGRAM !!! They're playing the statistics.

They are trying to get market share !!! Pure and Simple it's a TRICK !!!
USA#1, I own a Pharmacy. I have been doing this for over 18 years. I know exactly what Albuterol Costs... (For instance... last year at this time I could have bougt 1 Albuterol inhaler for about $1.99... NOW they cost $8.990

I also understand Loss Leaders... But (and I'm waiting to hear from my buying group attorneys... as well as other attorneys) I am pretty sure you can NOT sell a drug for less than you paid for it. This is unfair business practice and prohibited by Anti-Trust Laws (Even though anti-trust laws have been laughable since the Regan years!).

You can do "give aways" and "promotions"... but as a standard business practice you are not allowed to sell for less than you buy... (I think)... These rules are in place to prevent the MegaCompanies from completely squashing the Ma and Pa opperations... it has to be "Fair". There have to be some rules... and I'm pretty sure this is one of "the rules".

Believe me... I understand Loss Leaders... Typically, the way loss leaders have worked (at least in Pharmacy) is like this: Sell the drug at COST... this means you are losing money - and underselling everybody else. And that, I wouldn't have trouble with... But selling Below Cost seems to be a problem...

Again... still looking into it... will let you know when I find out more information...

[USA#1]

USA#1, I own a Pharmacy. I have been doing this for over 18 years. I know exactly what Albuterol Costs... (For instance... last year at this time I could have bougt 1 Albuterol inhaler for about $1.99... NOW they cost $8.990

I also understand Loss Leaders... But (and I'm waiting to hear from my buying group attorneys... as well as other attorneys) I am pretty sure you can NOT sell a drug for less than you paid for it. This is unfair business practice and prohibited by Anti-Trust Laws (Even though anti-trust laws have been laughable since the Regan years!).

You can do "give aways" and "promotions"... but as a standard business practice you are not allowed to sell for less than you buy... (I think)... These rules are in place to prevent the MegaCompanies from completely squashing the Ma and Pa opperations... it has to be "Fair". There have to be some rules... and I'm pretty sure this is one of "the rules".

Believe me... I understand Loss Leaders... Typically, the way loss leaders have worked (at least in Pharmacy) is like this: Sell the drug at COST... this means you are losing money - and underselling everybody else. And that, I wouldn't have trouble with... But selling Below Cost seems to be a problem...

Again... still looking into it... will let you know when I find out more information...

Since your a Pharmcist how many Generics are out there?

I agree with you on the Anti-Trust Law ... That makes total sense ... You think because Wal-Mart is such a big player they may get their Albuterol for 2.99 instead of what you have to pay because they have the buying power ... You have a buying group but it may be miniscule compared to Wal-Mart which is unfair.

I understand your points ... I hope you do get some reslolution to this !!!

I hate Wally World !!!

[Icky]

It is indeed a trick... AND, you are right, they will pick and choose which generics they will put on their list...

Many generics are old and forgotten... Generic companies don't send out sales people to hit Dr's offices to write for their meds... Only Brand Name drug companies do that... So, often, doctors don't know there is a generic that will do the same thing as this NEW BRAND NAME drug! And, they write for the New Drug...
True, there are probably 1000's of Generics on the market... but MOST of them are not commonly written for... There are probably about 500 Commonly Used Generics (At least in my market)... And probably 20 of them are relative New to the market and consequently still High Priced. Many times a New Generic will only save you about 20%-30%... after it has been on the market a while... and if it's popular enough... other generic companies will start making it too... and then there will be 10 sources for 1 generic.. and the price goes way down... BUT if only 1 or 2 generic companies are making the drug, the cost will stay high....

I am sure WalMart will be using Older and Cheaper generics... This will only serve a smallish percent of the public... A good gimmick indeed... They will probably succeed in gaining some market share... (they will probably increase the cost of other generic drugs, too!)

My only concern is the legality of it at this point... If it is shown to be a violation of Anti-Trust... I want to be a part of that class-action suit... I want them to pay me for their illegal behaviour.... I really hope this backfires in their face.

[Icky]

Since your a Pharmcist how many Generics are out there?

I agree with you on the Anti-Trust Law ... That makes total sense ... You think because Wal-Mart is such a big player they may get their Albuterol for 2.99 instead of what you have to pay because they have the buying power ... You have a buying group but it may be miniscule compared to Wal-Mart which is unfair.

I understand your points ... I hope you do get some reslolution to this !!!

I hate Wally World !!!
Don't know exactly how many generics are on the market... I know My Market pretty well... Many drugs I've never dispensed.. never even seen an Rx for them.. Wouldn't know if they exist or not! :)

(BTW, I am not a Pharmacist... I just own a pharmacy - an have a pharmacist on my payroll)

[USA#1]

Rock Their World Icky !!!

:fighting0066[1]: Wal-Mart and Target:fighting0081[1]:

Ask your pharmacist ... I'm sure they would know !!

IT's defiantely a gimmick to pick up market share, IT'S PURE TRICK !!!

[dr.strangelove]

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This is INSANE! It's a gimmick and it may be ILLEGAL!! (Perhaps Dr.Strangelove can advise me on this?)


It certainly is a gimmick, and it may well be an anti-trust violation. Walmart has had dozens of lawsuits from small businesses about their predatory pricing schemes. Walmart's plan to enter into new markets, both physical markets and new product markets, is to price items so low the competition can not compete. It absorbs the losses for enough time to eliminate the competition and then it slowly raises prices, removing any benefit to the consumer and allowing it to recoup the losses they sustained to lock up the monopoly on services.

They get away with it because the prices usually do not go back above the levels before walmart entered into the market. Walmart's buying power lets it keep costs down. Like Icky said, its costs are lower on the paper, ink, staples printing supplies, and employee time. It gets a MUCH better deal from the banks on credit/debit card charges. I am sure it gets a better deal on the product prices from the drug companies, but that is not the only place it saves. So at the end of the day it eliminates its competition, but still delivers a cheaper product, so they get away with it.

The legality of these are difficult to finger. Anti-trust laws are to prevent the abuse of consumers by eliminating price control by a monopoly. Since Walmart has always kept prices low, it gets away with its predatory actions. There are many that feel walmart is still in stage one, which is control of the markets. Once all of the little stores like Icky are gone and it is just Walmart, CVS and other big pharm companies, then stage 2 will be market collusion and price raising. I don’t know what the future holds.

I also think the law ignores a part of consumer protection that small stores like Icky provide, namely service. While I don’t know Icky personally, I buy my drugs from an indie drug store because the pharmacists who own it know my family. When I went in for an over the counter vitamin supplement for my 3 month old daughter, the pharmacist thought I was using the wrong one. He called my child's doc, who confirmed that the one he recommended was for an older child. Nothing bad would have happened even had I used the wrong product in this case, but my pharmacist knew I had a baby a few months earlier and thought enough to check it out and avoid the inconvenience for me. I doubt I would get that kind of service from walmart. I think the law needs to protect us from this type of loss. I probably paid $.10 more for that bottle for my daughter than I would have at walmart, but I am glad to pay a little more for that type of service.

Anyway, walmart will continue to put small stores out of business until we stop them. Great post Ick.

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

yup, its disgusting... & very, very effective...

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[Zemo]

I'm thinking of the poor person suffering from the doughnut hole of Medicare part D or whatever, who is faced with the decision of trying to save a couple dollars from their monthly prescription costs.
How do you make the arguement to them that though they might save some money they help to push everyone toward the exploitive megastore of the future?

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

we're already forgetting: Walmart probably buys BULK OVERSEAS or with BigPharm
ah, ethics ([Only registered and activated users can see links])...

the same way they sell GUNS ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), SUGAR ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) & FAT-LAIDEN FalseFood & PERFORM ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) LDS CENSORSHIP ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) ON THE PRODUCTS THEY SELL ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).

its Walmart ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).

its what we permit in OUR best interests...

[Icky]

we're already forgetting: Walmart probably buys BULK OVERSEAS or with BigPharm

its what we permit in OUR best interests...
Well... that's not exactly true with Medications... We CAN'T buy from Overseas!!!! (even though a large percentage of all the drugs we use are manufactured overseas!)

I know that Wal-Mart here (in Lexington KY) buys from the same Wholesaler as I (buy from)... McKesson. I have watched as McKesson has delivered to Wal-Mart... same Driver that delivered my meds once...

There are a couple of Major Wholesalers here... McKesson and Cardinal are the two biggies that come to mind...

Nobody really buys directly from the Manufacturer anymore... there are large Wholesale Houses that stock everything... and Pharmacies buy from the Wholesaler...

[Icky]

I'm thinking of the poor person suffering from the doughnut hole of Medicare part D or whatever, who is faced with the decision of trying to save a couple dollars from their monthly prescription costs.
How do you make the arguement to them that though they might save some money they help to push everyone toward the exploitive megastore of the future?
I think you just made the argument. That's how you do it...

Really... I almost ALWAYS have a better price than any chain store around me! And, if I am more expensive... it's only by a buck... and, I'll probably price match on that....

I ALWAYS have better prices than Kroger, Rite-Aid, or Walgreens... no problem beating their prices...

This $4 gimmick will only apply to a small percentage of drugs...
These poor people need to FIRST: Make sure their drugs are on the $4 list.. and SECOND: Realize they are shooting themselves in the foot by being so myopic.

Incidently... not all, but some of the 'poor' people you mention will not get their $20 medicine (where I have marked it up 10%)... they will complain about the expense and say they can't afford it... BUT! They will immediately drive over to KFC and buy a bucket of chicken and a Large Coke. (that's been marked up 300%)... and they pay this happily with no complaints... It's this diet that has left them overweight and diabetic in the first place... and they continue to spend their money on these kinds of things...

I realize that there are many people that are extremely responsible and don't waste their money... and they have serious trouble paying for their meds. They do tend to fall through the cracks...

But, in my experience, most people can cut out their beer and cigarette and fast food and have PLENTY of money left over to pay for their meds... and the ones that simply don't have the money, despite their best budgeting efforts, are almost always able to qualify for help of some kind.

People need to know that a Short-Term Fix ($4/Rx) is not in their best interest... People need to understand the problem is BIG LOBBY $$$ from BIG PHARMA... and people need to do their civic duty and become active in the affairs of their Gov't....

Kinda preachy today... but this damn business... and the general publics lack of understanding... is frustrating.

[USA#1]

Icky - Did you ever get an estimate of the number of generics on the market?

Just Wondering

:icon_cool:

[Ben Burch]

Icky,

What if they have a means of filling a prescription for MUCH less than $10?

What if, for example, they are doing it with a robotic vending machine?

I could easily design a machine to dispense pills and label bottles, and if you could somehow shorten the inspection time for the licensed pharmacist to a few seconds, you'd be in the sub $4 range I am sure.

-Ben

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

don't laugh ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).


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These search terms have been highlighted: pharmaceutical vending machine
Page 1
Business
July 10, 2005
Medication by vending machine
By Daniel Dasey
CONSUMER REPORTER
AUSTRALIA
Pharmacists have expressed interest in vending machines that would allow consumers to pick up prescription drugs
out of hours.
The Pharmaceutical Society of Australia last week said the ATM-style machines, gaining popularity in the US, could
have a role in Australia for stable patients on regular medication.
But it stressed the idea would have to be thoroughly investigated and strictly policed.
PSA national president Brian Grogan said: "There are advantages if a pharmacy doesn't open after hours and has one
of these machines to provide a service to patients. But there would have to be some pretty strict controls."
Vending machine operators last week expressed interest in the idea and pharmacy industry analysts believe it may be
only a matter of time before it is tried here.
But the Registrar of the Pharmacy Board of NSW thought there would be significant obstacles to introducing the
devices.
Three American states opened the way for electronic drug dispensers to go into use this year, allowing the
public out-of-hours access to common prescription medicines and cutting costs.
US automation company Asteres has been a pioneer for the chemist vending machines with its ScriptCenter now
being used in California and Virginia and approved for use in Hawaii.
Consumers in Hawaii will be able to get a new prescription as well as repeats. A consumer phones ahead to order a
prescription, which the pharmacist fills and places into the vending machine. The consumer picks up the prescription
later, keying in a password or code.
Dispensed drugs can include asthma and blood pressure medications and contraceptive pills.
Mr. Grogan said there were disadvantages in that patients would lose contact with pharmacists who could monitor
conditions. But he said for regular repeat prescriptions, where the patient was stable, there could be advantages.
Registrar of the Pharmacy Board of NSW Kym Ayscough said there would be administrative and ethical
considerations.
To claim their payment for issuing many medicines under the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme pharmacists must
obtain a patient's signature.
There are also requirements to provide appropriate advice and counseling to people receiving prescriptions.

[USA#1]

don't laugh ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).


THAT'S JUST WRONG ... Mix the wrong medicine with another your taking and the consequences could quite literally be DEATH !!!

THE LIABILITY IS WHAT SHUTS THIS DOOR BIG TIME !!!

Pharmacists have to actually check the other meds perscribed to see if they have conflits ... i would never trust it EVER !!!

If the Ausies have a Bent for Vending Machines ... Pharma in the USA will be sued till their asses are stretched and hanging on a wall somewhere!!!

I'll lead the lawsuit myself and join ICKY to bury this idea ... Stone Age MF'ers !!!

[Icky]

THAT'S JUST WRONG ... Mix the wrong medicine with another your taking and the consequences could quite literally be DEATH !!!

THE LIABILITY IS WHAT SHUTS THIS DOOR BIG TIME !!!

Pharmacists have to actually check the other meds perscribed to see if they have conflits ... i would never trust it EVER !!!

If the Ausies have a Bent for Vending Machines ... Pharma in the USA will be sued till their asses are stretched and hanging on a wall somewhere!!!

I'll lead the lawsuit myself and join ICKY to bury this idea ... Stone Age MF'ers !!!
They've got machines like this in the US... being Tested.

I think it works like this:
The Rx gets scanned into the machine... somewhere else, a pharmacist sees the Rx and enters the data (while checking for allergies and drug interactions) ... a robot counts and labels the meds...
The pharmacist views the bottle via web-cam and verifies the tabs/caps, label, etc... are correct.... Pharmacist hits <enter> and Rx is dispensed along with drug information (counselling).

Sounds cold and impersonal... and may be frought with law suits... but really, it's not much different than what we do anyway...

There is NO WAY for me to know if a patient has had meds filled at another store... There is NO WAY for me to know of drug interactions if I don't have a complete history of what the patient is taking... and MOST patients don't tell me everything.

I think this idea might work in some cases, but MANY MANY Rx's are not so simple... Many require a lot of phone calls and clarifications, etc...

Besides... simply providing a Print Out (information) on a drug is not necessarily the same thing as "Counselling" - as is required by law.

There's a very good arguement that MAIL ORDER Pharmacy is Illegal.
OBRA 1990 requires all patients to be counselled on New Rx's... Many patients can't read. Many patients have questions. Many patients aren't satisfied with a piece of paper... The mail order houses say that there is a 1-800 number for those questions... but that is not the same thing as counselling a patient. So...

I can imagine one little tiny building (200 ft.sq.) filling 300 Rxs a day and NO Pharmacist in the building... Rather the pharmacists sitting in another building, in a cubicle, checking and OKing Rx's from a distance... and a little machine spitting out pill bottles... I'll bet you it happens.

[dr.strangelove]

They've got machines like this in the US... being Tested.

I think it works like this:
The Rx gets scanned into the machine... somewhere else, a pharmacist sees the Rx and enters the data (while checking for allergies and drug interactions) ... a robot counts and labels the meds...
The pharmacist views the bottle via web-cam and verifies the tabs/caps, label, etc... are correct.... Pharmacist hits <enter> and Rx is dispensed along with drug information (counselling).

Sounds cold and impersonal... and may be frought with law suits... but really, it's not much different than what we do anyway...

There is NO WAY for me to know if a patient has had meds filled at another store... There is NO WAY for me to know of drug interactions if I don't have a complete history of what the patient is taking... and MOST patients don't tell me everything.

I think this idea might work in some cases, but MANY MANY Rx's are not so simple... Many require a lot of phone calls and clarifications, etc...

Besides... simply providing a Print Out (information) on a drug is not necessarily the same thing as "Counselling" - as is required by law.

There's a very good arguement that MAIL ORDER Pharmacy is Illegal.
OBRA 1990 requires all patients to be counselled on New Rx's... Many patients can't read. Many patients have questions. Many patients aren't satisfied with a piece of paper... The mail order houses say that there is a 1-800 number for those questions... but that is not the same thing as counselling a patient. So...

I can imagine one little tiny building (200 ft.sq.) filling 300 Rxs a day and NO Pharmacist in the building... Rather the pharmacists sitting in another building, in a cubicle, checking and OKing Rx's from a distance... and a little machine spitting out pill bottles... I'll bet you it happens.

This is a bigger problem then you think. I do a fair amount of healthcare law (my clients reinsure and insure hosptials, clinics, physicians, nurses, locum tenens providers ...) and we have encountered a huge risk in tele or e-medicine.

Picture this, you go to a machine and it scan your script order. That script order is e-mailed to a waiting pharmacist in India, who reads it on a screen and punches in a code for the matching drug. The computer releases that code to the machine on Main Street USA, which releases teh drugs to the waiting consumer. It takes about 10 minutes and you get your drugs immediately.

Scary huh. We already do this with Radiology. The CT or MRI scan you think a doctor in the hospital is reading is actually e-mailed to a physician in another country who reads it along with hundreds of others off a computer screen and sends his report back to the US hospital.

What ever happened to personal contact in medicine? I think this has to impact patient care. The drug scenario I outlined is only in the testign stage, it is not being done with real patients yet. The radiology scenario is active in many small or rural hospitals.

[Icky]

Icky,

What if they have a means of filling a prescription for MUCH less than $10?

What if, for example, they are doing it with a robotic vending machine?

I could easily design a machine to dispense pills and label bottles, and if you could somehow shorten the inspection time for the licensed pharmacist to a few seconds, you'd be in the sub $4 range I am sure.

-Ben
I suspect it will be possible one day... but not Today.
The entire system would have to radically change!

WAY TOO MUCH Overhead....
ONE Pharmacist = $100,000/Yr. Plus Bonus, Insurance, etc...
TWO Technicians = $10/Hr.
All the other overhead... Square Footage, Computer Software, Price Updates, Electricity, Water, Bank, Bags, Labels, Insurance, Taxes, etc.. etc.. etc...

[dr.strangelove]

I suspect it will be possible one day... but not Today.
The entire system would have to radically change!

WAY TOO MUCH Overhead....
ONE Pharmacist = $100,000/Yr. Plus Bonus, Insurance, etc...
TWO Technicians = $10/Hr.
All the other overhead... Square Footage, Computer Software, Price Updates, Electricity, Water, Bank, Bags, Labels, Insurance, Taxes, etc.. etc.. etc...

What if the one Pharmcist was in India and made $20,000 per year. The two techs were paid mimimum wage because Walmart had put the indie pharacies in town out of business so there were no other jobs to take. The rest certaily is cheaper for Walmart than you. I wonder if this could happen sooner than you think. It is scary and will only result in poor care.

[Icky]

What if the one Pharmcist was in India and made $20,000 per year. The two techs were paid mimimum wage because Walmart had put the indie pharacies in town out of business so there were no other jobs to take. The rest certaily is cheaper for Walmart than you. I wonder if this could happen sooner than you think. It is scary and will only result in poor care.
I think it will happen... maybe you're right about the "sooner than I think" part... :mad:
I think this is all part of one giant paradigm shift.
The ground is shakey for a lot of us.... ALL of us!

[dr.strangelove]

I think it will happen... maybe you're right about the "sooner than I think" part... :mad:
I think this is all part of one giant paradigm shift.
The ground is shakey for a lot of us.... ALL of us!
It is a shift, its a shift away from good healthcare and toward more corporate profits.

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

see there are a LOT of pharmacy groups that make their bread & butter from retirement homes.
filling patient 'cards' of prescriptions.

Not everybody has Family like a Soprano...

who is more vulnerable than a retiree with no family nearby?... ah, never mind we can just put 'em down ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) if they get TESTY. ([Only registered and activated users can see links])..

its not like they're CONSCIENTOUS OBJECTORS ([Only registered and activated users can see links]).


those can be arranged overseas... think about it... your RETIREMENT HOME SUBCONTRACTING OVERSEAS TO A CORPORATION without OVERSIGHT...

its what, a database update? a monthly courier... a little extra jet fuel & global dimming ... what the hell...

what about from, say, Saipan ([Only registered and activated users can see links])...

& you guys had issues with CANADA... jesus.

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

from employees ([Only registered and activated users can see links])...


AGH!!!

[Icky]

Just got this FAX from NCPA (National Community Pharmacists Association)

Wal-Mart's $4 Generics - A Classic Bait-and-Switch

> Of the nearly 9,000 generic drugs in the United States, the Wal-Mart pilot program will offer fewer than 300.
>The 291 drugs on the list include many older medicines, multiple versions of the same medicines, and no choices for a number of key health conditions.
> Only 1 of the top 20 most frequently prescribed medications, in its commonly used form, is on the list.
> None of the generic statins, used to treat high cholesterol, is on the list.

Wal-Mart s infamous for driving small-town businesses out of business.


Not sure if Non-Pharmacists can help... but just in case:
1-800-544-7447

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

wow, stealing from the Poor & the Older


nice.

classy.

its got Walton all over it.

I just wish they hadn't named such a great Christmas Movie family with that name.

[Icky]

Some more info regarding generics: Got this today from APCI
-------------------------------------


Insurers: Price is Right for Insurers

APCI Members are well aware of the savings provided through the use of generics. Now, private insurers are taking a page out of the brand-name pharmaceutical industries marketing playbook. They are showering consumers with free generic drug samples, waiving co-payments and marketing directly to consumers in doctor's offices, where brand-name drug salesmen are omnipresent. They are there to encourage the use of cheaper, generic prescription drugs.

Health insureres are fighting back in a way that consumers can also appreciate. In addition to eliminating co-pays, health plans are paying to install ATM-like machines in medical offices that allow physicians to dispense up to 30 days of free generic medication. The machines automatically track what has been used and send an alert when they need refilling. Before, doctors gave away brand name drugs provided by pharmaceutical sales reps that stop in regularly to replenish supplies. Dr. Andrewe Sullivan is a family physician at PennCare Yardley Medical Center in Pennsylvania and has had a generic drug dispenser in his office for nearly 5 months.

"They like to take generics for a test drive. They also don't have to pay their $50 co-pay to see if they work," Sullivan said, adding that he thinks the machines' presence helps balance a doctors thinking. "When you've seen so many drug reps and you're hit all of the time with their pitches, it takes some time to change the way you think," Sullivan said. "You're hearing all of the [brand] drugs mentioned all of the time. There's no way to advocate for generics because there are so many manufacturers making them, so it's nice to be able to have the generics in the office and be able to have it on the radar."

The aggressive campaign by health plans comes as a large number of branded drugs are coming off patent protection and face unprecedented vulnerability to generic competition. This year alone, drugs representing an estimated $20 Billion in brand name sales lose patent protection.

------------------------------------------
ALSO... to answer the question "How many generics are on the market?", the following is the response I got:



there is about 500 generics on the market which is Tab, Caps, Inj. Liquids,

But this was augmented...


I sent you an e-mail the other night stating that there appeared to be between 400-500 generics. The Generic Pharma Assoc says that there is 11,167 drugs listed and 8400 are sold generically. I am sure that includes all sizes and strengths along with OTC. We show close to 7000 on contract but that includes all forms, OTC, Inj and Chemicals.