It's all about Class Warfare

[Trap]

Think about it.

American workers have to 'bargain' with their employers for quality health care coverage. Workers in ALL other industrialized nations get quality health care coverage under their NATIONAL blanket health care plans.

The world is flat??

Who is kidding whom??

Without a comprehensive national health care system, our jobs are toast.

For those who think that national systems are just bloated buerocracy and poor service, look no farther than the US Medicaid system. It has actual lower costs than most HMO's.

[TheBoss(DCA)]

Greed actually. Were living in a age where greed is running rampant. I haven't seen it this bad since the last throws of the Regan era.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

Think about it.

American workers have to 'bargain' with their employers for quality health care coverage. Workers in ALL other industrialized nations get quality health care coverage under their NATIONAL blanket health care plans.

The world is flat??

Who is kidding whom??

Without a comprehensive national health care system, our jobs are toast.

For those who think that national systems are just bloated buerocracy and poor service, look no farther than the US Medicaid system. It has actual lower costs than most HMO's.

Agreed, Trap.

Whenever I bring up the need for National Healthcare with friends who agree we need it, it seems I'm always met with something similar to this response: "We'll have to go to a national healthcare system eventually. We already have one to a certain extent in that people must be treated whether or not they have insurance.....yadda yadda...Medicaid....yadda yadda...."

I've been hearing that response for more than 20 years now. When is "eventually" going to get here?

Something you can pass around about healthcare for our nation's kids: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Do your own discretionary spending pie chart and then find out what the government's looks like: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

Do we really need all these? [Only registered and activated users can see links]

(I like Ben & Jerry's, hee hee. :food06[1]: )

[SouthernDem2006]

Greed actually. Were living in a age where greed is running rampant. I haven't seen it this bad since the last throws of the Regan era.


Seems greed has always been the rule. Since the dawn of man, man has always looked out for #1.

[TheBoss(DCA)]

Seems greed has always been the rule. Since the dawn of man, man has always looked out for #1.

True whats that old proverb in the bible, "the love of money is the root of all evils?" I hope I quoted it right.

And as my Grandpa used to say, "some of the richest people he knew didn't have a dime in thier pockets."

[The_Bammo]

I may be missing something here, but I'll give it a shot.

Healthcare for a lot of people in the U.S.A. went out the door when the people of the U.S.A. let labor unions out the door.

Healthcare was an almost guaranteed thing for the American Worker when the labor union was strong in the U.S.

Remember those days--buy union made?? Almost every worker could afford transportation and a house for his or her family.

A one income family could afford good healthy food.

Almost every union man or women was a die hard Democrat.

What happened to that? We as Americans settled for less and cheaper products and let the Repugs drive out the labor unions, so that the rich could cash in more.

What is made here in the U.S.A. today? I really think the answer to that is not much compared to the made in Taiwan and China products we let in here.

When we let the labor union drown and the foreign products flood our markets, our healthcare died as well, and the middle class in the U.S.A. passed away with it.

That there is MHO.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I really used to be proud of the above---really proud!

Hang Tough~

[bushwentawol]

Think about it.

American workers have to 'bargain' with their employers for quality health care coverage. Workers in ALL other industrialized nations get quality health care coverage under their NATIONAL blanket health care plans.

The world is flat??

Who is kidding whom??

Without a comprehensive national health care system, our jobs are toast.

For those who think that national systems are just bloated buerocracy and poor service, look no farther than the US Medicaid system. It has actual lower costs than most HMO's.


What gets me is we have conservatives buying into this crap that healthcare is not a right of everyone. Then as soon as they become eligible you can damn sure believe they sign up for Medicare.

[webhead]

What gets me is we have conservatives buying into this crap that healthcare is not a right of everyone. Then as soon as they become eligible you can damn sure believe they sign up for Medicare.
bushwentawol, you are exactly right.

I don't see the Republicans in Congress giving up there health insurance caoverage, let alone delaying their pay increases. Same applies for, at least in Missouri, the Republican controlled state legislature.

In fact, retired Senator John Danforth (R-MO) is a very wealthy man, yet he has said he has earned a federal pension and Social Security and will continue to collect becasue he earned it. Doesn't matter to him that he does not need it. He is probably wealthier than all of us here combined!

You know what these Republicans are who vote to decrease or eliminate social benefits yet keep the same, if not better, benefits for themselves.

[bushwentawol]

bushwentawol, you are exactly right.

I don't see the Republicans in Congress giving up there health insurance caoverage, let alone delaying their pay increases. Same applies for, at least in Missouri, the Republican controlled state legislature.

In fact, retired Senator John Danforth (R-MO) is a very wealthy man, yet he has said he has earned a federal pension and Social Security and will continue to collect becasue he earned it. Doesn't matter to him that he does not need it. He is probably wealthier than all of us here combined!

You know what these Republicans are who vote to decrease or eliminate social benefits yet keep the same, if not better, benefits for themselves.

You got Webhead. Plus amongst the average conservative there's this same mentality of having earned every penny of government $$$ they get no matter what it's for. Whether it's Medicare or tax-breaks for their business or farm subsidy payments there's a feeling of entitlement. They refuse to acknowlege the hypocrisy or see this as a type of socialism. I would love to give people like this truly unfettered, bloodthirsty capitalism. They'd be screaming for government protection in short order.

[lisainmilo]

It is greed, because pharmaceutical corporations and insurance corporations are presently running a great part of this country. All you have to do is turn on the 5pm news and watch the commercials. Its sad! Its also sad that we are the only industrialized country that doesn't give a rats ass about its own people!!!!!!
It makes me sick!!!!!

[lisainmilo]

There are some really good posts here!:hug:

[Trap]

Thanks Lisa :)

[The_Bammo]

Fall 2006 Issue: Health Care For All[Only registered and activated users can see links] Care: It's What Ails Us
The cost of corporate bureaucracy
Where is the money going? An estimated 15 cents of each private U.S. health care dollar goes simply to shuffling the paperwork. The administrative costs for our patched-together system of HMO's, insurance companies, pharmaceutical manufacturers, hospitals, and government programs are nearly double those for single-payer Canada. It’s not because Americans are inherently less efficient than Canadians — our publicly funded Medicare system spends under five cents per budget dollar on administrative overhead. And the Veterans Administration, which functions like Britain’s socialized medical system, spends less per patient but consistently outranks private providers in patient satisfaction and quality of care.
But in the private sector, profits and excessive CEO pay are added

What is the obstacle?
With all the support and all the good reasons to adopt universal health care, why don’t we have it yet? Why do politicians refuse to talk about the solution people want?
It could be the fact that the health care industry, the top spender on Capitol Hill, spent $183.3 million on lobbying just in the second half of 2005, according to PoliticalMoneyLine. com. And in the 2003–2004 election cycle, they spent $123.7 million on election campaigns, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
Politicians dread the propaganda barrage and political fallout that surrounded the failed Clinton health care plan. But in the years since, health care costs have outpaced growth in wages and inflation by huge margins, Americans have joined the ranks of the uninsured at the rate of 2 million each year, and businesses are taking a major competitiveness hit as they struggle to pay rising premiums.
Healthcare-Now ([Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])) is holding town hall meetings throughout the United States (they’ve held 93 so far), and people are pressing their representatives to take action. Over 150 unions have called for action on universal health care, and polls show overwhelming majorities of Americans feel the same way.
Some political leaders are pressing for universal health care. Remember Joel, who was kicked out of the hospital with $100,000 in medical debt? He started giving speeches about the catastrophe of our health care system, and eventually got hired by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) to head his universal single payer health care effort. Conyers’ "Medicare for All" bill now has 72 co-sponsors. Rep. Jim McDermott’s (D-WA) Health Security Act has 62.
Around the United States, state and local campaigns for universal health care are making progress. (See Rev. Linda Walling’s ([Only registered and activated users can see links])update).
One of these days, the lobbyists and their clients in government may have to get out of the way and let Americans join the rest of the developed world in the security, efficiency, and quality that comes with health care for all.


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[bushwentawol]

Fall 2006 Issue: Health Care For All[Only registered and activated users can see links] Care: It's What Ails Us
The cost of corporate bureaucracy
Where is the money going? An estimated 15 cents of each private U.S. health care dollar goes simply to shuffling the paperwork. The administrative costs for our patched-together system of HMO's, insurance companies, pharmaceutical manufacturers, hospitals, and government programs are nearly double those for single-payer Canada. It’s not because Americans are inherently less efficient than Canadians — our publicly funded Medicare system spends under five cents per budget dollar on administrative overhead. And the Veterans Administration, which functions like Britain’s socialized medical system, spends less per patient but consistently outranks private providers in patient satisfaction and quality of care.
But in the private sector, profits and excessive CEO pay are added

What is the obstacle?
With all the support and all the good reasons to adopt universal health care, why don’t we have it yet? Why do politicians refuse to talk about the solution people want?
It could be the fact that the health care industry, the top spender on Capitol Hill, spent $183.3 million on lobbying just in the second half of 2005, according to PoliticalMoneyLine. com. And in the 2003–2004 election cycle, they spent $123.7 million on election campaigns, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.
Politicians dread the propaganda barrage and political fallout that surrounded the failed Clinton health care plan. But in the years since, health care costs have outpaced growth in wages and inflation by huge margins, Americans have joined the ranks of the uninsured at the rate of 2 million each year, and businesses are taking a major competitiveness hit as they struggle to pay rising premiums.
Healthcare-Now ([Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])) is holding town hall meetings throughout the United States (they’ve held 93 so far), and people are pressing their representatives to take action. Over 150 unions have called for action on universal health care, and polls show overwhelming majorities of Americans feel the same way.
Some political leaders are pressing for universal health care. Remember Joel, who was kicked out of the hospital with $100,000 in medical debt? He started giving speeches about the catastrophe of our health care system, and eventually got hired by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) to head his universal single payer health care effort. Conyers’ "Medicare for All" bill now has 72 co-sponsors. Rep. Jim McDermott’s (D-WA) Health Security Act has 62.
Around the United States, state and local campaigns for universal health care are making progress. (See Rev. Linda Walling’s ([Only registered and activated users can see links])update).
One of these days, the lobbyists and their clients in government may have to get out of the way and let Americans join the rest of the developed world in the security, efficiency, and quality that comes with health care for all.


[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Administrative costs in our healthcare system are out of control. All you have to do is go into any sizeable hospital in the U.S. to see all the space devoted to nothing more than offices. Every one of these white collar positions can be rationalized on their own merits but there comes a time where we say enough is enough.

[Eyeswideopen]

I am truly ashamed that every person in the United States is not automatically covered for health care. It's a scandal and a disgrace. No other civilized nation operates in this callous, immoral way.

I too mourn the labor unions and know just how much they have meant to our nation and our workers, even to those who never joined a union. But the health care issue should be a right to every citizen, even if you don't work or belong to a union. It should not be tied to your employment either. Do we tell people they can only travel on a public road if they are employed and their employer contributes to that road? When you go into a public library, they don't ask about your employment.

What if you are a writer or an artist? Other nations revere these people who nourish society. But here, if you are some sort of artist, you are considered unworthy of social benefits? It's disgusting. Only people who have lived in other countries, where health care is a right, really realize how disgusting our system is. What if you are an unpaid fulltime caretaker, are you less worthy of health care than a bean counter or a bus driver or a waitress? I always felt this way, but after living in the U.K., I find our system inhumane and intolerable.

[Crazy Guggenheim]

mentioned that the big problem with our system is it costs too much! However, we have a good medical system but it costs too damn much.

[rightiswrong]

I may be missing something here, but I'll give it a shot.

Healthcare for a lot of people in the U.S.A. went out the door when the people of the U.S.A. let labor unions out the door.

Healthcare was an almost guaranteed thing for the American Worker when the labor union was strong in the U.S.

Remember those days--buy union made?? Almost every worker could afford transportation and a house for his or her family.

A one income family could afford good healthy food.

Almost every union man or women was a die hard Democrat.

What happened to that? We as Americans settled for less and cheaper products and let the Repugs drive out the labor unions, so that the rich could cash in more.

What is made here in the U.S.A. today? I really think the answer to that is not much compared to the made in Taiwan and China products we let in here.

When we let the labor union drown and the foreign products flood our markets, our healthcare died as well, and the middle class in the U.S.A. passed away with it.

That there is MHO.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

I really used to be proud of the above---really proud!

Hang Tough~

A big F U to Wal*mart applies here.

[Trap]

F-U:
NAFTA, WTO, China MFN, World Bank, IMP....they are all the same.

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

I argue its a CASTE war... not necessarily class... that confuses the issues for Westerners. the propaganda has been too effective with COMMUNISM.

I don't wish to disparage the caste system... but it highlights the differences of culture that are also diluted into the arguments for war & clashing culture...

I prefer 'caste' simply because it highlights the DOGMATIC adherence to 'social role' that helps control us through 'legislating morality'...

when we remove the term 'class' & substitute with 'caste' we start seeing life through a more academic lens.... or at least I do...


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

HEY holy SHIT

check THIS OUT: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

that's freaky uncanny!!

[galilei]

mentioned that the big problem with our system is it costs too much! However, we have a good medical system but it costs too damn much.

It costs too much precisely because it's all privatized.

Neocons are always talking about the "efficiency of the free market", but it just isn't so. Was Enron efficient? Sure.. at stealing..
We have fewer doctors per capita than Cuba or Costa Rica.. that creates an artificial scarcity.. it's not like we lack the capacity to train more doctors.. it's that medical schools only admit some tiny fraction of the thousands of qualified applications they receive.
HMO's don't seem to be particularly efficient, unless taking most preventative medicine out of normal workers' benefits is efficient.. unless trying to deny paying legitimate claims is efficient.

A doctor provides some goods and some services and those have a certain value.. the patient has needs, and those compell the patient to seek out the doctor. That's the street level economic relationship between doctor and patient. The HMO's relationship is strictly parasitic to the others.
I have an infection around the sliver in my foot.. I grab a chicken and limp to the village looking for the shaman.
But then, suddenly, in steps the HMO. He has sequestered the shaman and now instead of giving my chicken to the shaman and getting my foot cured with a bone needle and an ayuhuasca vision quest, I'm arguing with the HMO about when I can get to see the shaman.
By the time I can see the shaman it feels like my leg is going to explode and it turns out it costs two chickens. I have no choice but to pay.
I get tended to by some apprentices who prod at my foot and I'm pretty sure there was a timed exposure to the shaman at some point. The ayuhuasca is bunk and I limp for two weeks afterwords. I complain at the next council, but the illuminated faces around the fire say we can't fix the system. I notice they're wearing feathers from my best chicken.
It's pure insanity.

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

Talk to Canadians about raising fees & reduced care ([Only registered and activated users can see links])...

why? greed & a lack of ACTUAL compassionate ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) ETHICS in medicine...

[Tadpole of HypnoToad]

Think about it.

American workers have to 'bargain' with their employers for quality health care coverage. Workers in ALL other industrialized nations get quality health care coverage under their NATIONAL blanket health care plans.

The world is flat??

Who is kidding whom??

Without a comprehensive national health care system, our jobs are toast.

For those who think that national systems are just bloated buerocracy and poor service, look no farther than the US Medicaid system. It has actual lower costs than most HMO's.

And with some estimates of the potential of offshored jobs eclipsing 56 million over the next decade or two... (few sources are saying those jobs are coming back...) then look at philanthropists who seem to be ignoring America while concentrating on developing and donating to cure diseases in those same parts of the world, and voila. Possibly. That makes sense until other things like the war on terror are put into play. In short, I agree it's nothing but rampant greed, with no correlating factor.

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

inspired by hate ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) & FEAR.

:GrimReaper:

I'm sure we agree, the hate & fear part... but the caste part... well, its been tweeking at me a bit ([Only registered and activated users can see links])...

[BlueBerry Pick'n]

thought I'd share a video I used in a collage.

She's brilliant & has taken a LOT of crap for doing this interview ([Only registered and activated users can see links])...

as comment on earlier postings...

it breaks my heart that GREED has replaced much of the 'community spirit' that used to be part of medicine ([Only registered and activated users can see links])... :MoneyEyes:

too many hands rushing to get more than a few crumbs on the table... if you catch my drift.

EVERYBODY seems to want to add a layer of 'buffer' protection or just 'unaccountability' through distances...

we play games about levels of EFFICIENCY... but when you look at the payrolls of Brocklehurst Charities ([Only registered and activated users can see links])or health insurance...

everybody is making a 'killing' off healthcare...

Honestly, take a GOOD LOOK at the PORK in the "United Way"... or other charities where WIVES, DAUGHTERS, NEPHEWS of politicians or rich socialites are stuffed into 'fundraising' careers... honestly... its grotesque.