abortion

[rememberearth]

As you may well know, I am a member of several debate forums on myspace and otherwise. This is the hottest topic around right now. Would anyone be so kind as to help me debate this with the (surprise, surprise) men folk, as they cannot wrap their iddy-bitty heads around the concept of reproductive rights for women.

[SouthernDem2006]

Tip #1
Avoid typing "as they cannot wrap their iddy-bitty heads around the concept." :p

[dr.strangelove]

As you may well know, I am a member of several debate forums on myspace and otherwise. This is the hottest topic around right now. Would anyone be so kind as to help me debate this with the (surprise, surprise) men folk, as they cannot wrap their iddy-bitty heads around the concept of reproductive rights for women.

While I agree that abortion is a choice for a woman to make, I don't think the choice comes from a reproductive right. In fact I think reproductive rights are equal between men and women. What makes abortion solely a woman's choice is the healthcare risks she alone faces during a pregnancy. Her right to control her body and make informed medical decisions over her body gives her the right to choose an abortion. I mean spending ~nine months in a risky medical state that will have a significant impact on her health and will permanently alter her internal anatomy, plus to go through one of the most traumatic physical experiences or a risky surgical procedure, these are hefty medical decisions that will only impact the woman's body. These issues involve her privacy rights and those trump the reproductive rights of the fetus' "father".
Your comment that "men folk cannot wrap their iddy-bitty heads around the concept of reproductive rights for women was a little bit offensive to me because I don't think abortion is based on a woman's reproductive rights.
If it were solely a reproductive right issue, I argue that men and woman have equal rights on reproduction. If you were to somehow remove the privacy healthcare issues of the woman from the equation, I would argue that the men have just as much of a reproductive right as the woman. In reality we can not do this. It is medically impossible, so the argument is moot.
But, let me ask you a hypothetical purely for academic discussion. Lets say we are in some "star wars" advanced/high tech civilization and there is some way to magically remove a zygote from a woman using some non-invasive teleport/beaming type technology. Lets even say such a product is combined with the home pregnancy test. Once the test reveals you are pregnant, the product can "beam" the zygote out into a little stasis container from which you can either dispose of it, keep it, grow it in your cabbage patch or whatever. What I am trying to say with this fantastic fantasy is that the woman has zero medical risks of removing the fetus and terminating her pregnancy and the zygote is alive and ready to be grown somewhere into a baby. I argue that once the zygote is removed, the man and woman who created it have the same reproductive rights.
I know that such a tale is sci-fi imagination, and its fun for me to imagine such things, but I think it shows why I disagree that abortion is a woman's reproductive right. Its not a reproductive right to me, its a privacy right. If you remove the privacy issues, then the reproductive rights of men and women are equal in my mind.
Also, while legally I agree it is solely the woman's choice to make, I believe it is a woman's moral obligation to tell me about the pregnancy and involve me in the discussion. I am married and have a child. I hope to have another. My wife is the only person I engage is sex with, and I would bet my life that I am the only one she engages in sex with. These comments are limited to our marital and sexual situation. While I agree that my wife has every legal right to have an abortion, if she did so without telling me I could never forgive her.

[rememberearth]

I certainly didn't mean any offense. It just appears to me with the forums mentioned that the majority of the people who want to discuss the abortion issue and are against it are men. They have no qualms about offending me, so I have a chip on my shoulder with regards. The burden lies on the woman solely. I know this for a fact, I have had children(I have twins) and it was I who endured bed rest for 7 months. There are other factors for which I do not feel comfortable to go into right now. However it appears from my experience and my observations men clearly have the easy route here. Yet they are the first to pass and piddle the judgement out. No offense I just have had some harsh experiences, please trust me with this. While there are caring and compassionate men out there who do realize the sacrifices and burdens of us "women folk", there are also the most insensitive selfish pigs out there who clearly see this issue as one of control meanwhile hiding behind the guise of religion to back up their beliefs. I detest these arguments as they do nothing but insult my intelligence and the intelligence of other women and are proof positive that we are in fact STILL in a society that is very much (regardless of our strides for women's rights) patriarchal.
While I agree that abortion is a choice for a woman to make, I don't think the choice comes from a reproductive right. In fact I think reproductive rights are equal between men and women. What makes abortion solely a woman's choice is the healthcare risks she alone faces during a pregnancy. Her right to control her body and make informed medical decisions over her body gives her the right to choose an abortion. I mean spending ~nine months in a risky medical state that will have a significant impact on her health and will permanently alter her internal anatomy, plus to go through one of the most traumatic physical experiences or a risky surgical procedure, these are hefty medical decisions that will only impact the woman's body. These issues involve her privacy rights and those trump the reproductive rights of the fetus' "father".
Your comment that "men folk cannot wrap their iddy-bitty heads around the concept of reproductive rights for women was a little bit offensive to me because I don't think abortion is based on a woman's reproductive rights.
If it were solely a reproductive right issue, I argue that men and woman have equal rights on reproduction. If you were to somehow remove the privacy healthcare issues of the woman from the equation, I would argue that the men have just as much of a reproductive right as the woman. In reality we can not do this. It is medically impossible, so the argument is moot.
But, let me ask you a hypothetical purely for academic discussion. Lets say we are in some "star wars" advanced/high tech civilization and there is some way to magically remove a zygote from a woman using some non-invasive teleport/beaming type technology. Lets even say such a product is combined with the home pregnancy test. Once the test reveals you are pregnant, the product can "beam" the zygote out into a little stasis container from which you can either dispose of it, keep it, grow it in your cabbage patch or whatever. What I am trying to say with this fantastic fantasy is that the woman has zero medical risks of removing the fetus and terminating her pregnancy and the zygote is alive and ready to be grown somewhere into a baby. I argue that once the zygote is removed, the man and woman who created it have the same reproductive rights.
I know that such a tale is sci-fi imagination, and its fun for me to imagine such things, but I think it shows why I disagree that abortion is a woman's reproductive right. Its not a reproductive right to me, its a privacy right. If you remove the privacy issues, then the reproductive rights of men and women are equal in my mind.
Also, while legally I agree it is solely the woman's choice to make, I believe it is a woman's moral obligation to tell me about the pregnancy and involve me in the discussion. I am married and have a child. I hope to have another. My wife is the only person I engage is sex with, and I would bet my life that I am the only one she engages in sex with. These comments are limited to our marital and sexual situation. While I agree that my wife has every legal right to have an abortion, if she did so without telling me I could never forgive her.

[dr.strangelove]

I certainly didn't mean any offense. It just appears to me with the forums mentioned that the majority of the people who want to discuss the abortion issue and are against it are men. They have no qualms about offending me, so I have a chip on my shoulder with regards. The burden lies on the woman solely. I know this for a fact, I have had children(I have twins) and it was I who endured bed rest for 7 months. There are other factors for which I do not feel comfortable to go into right now. However it appears from my experience and my observations men clearly have the easy route here. Yet they are the first to pass and piddle the judgement out. No offense I just have had some harsh experiences, please trust me with this. While there are caring and compassionate men out there who do realize the sacrifices and burdens of us "women folk", there are also the most insensitive selfish pigs out there who clearly see this issue as one of control meanwhile hiding behind the guise of religion to back up their beliefs. I detest these arguments as they do nothing but insult my intelligence and the intelligence of other women and are proof positive that we are in fact STILL in a society that is very much (regardless of our strides for women's rights) patriarchal.

I was not greatly offended, and I thank you for your thoughts on this. I agree there are many men who use the abortion issue as a tool in offensive ways. I hope yo uknow that I meant no offense to you, I just wanted to talk with you about this. I understant the chip on you shoulder and you have every right to have it. As I said, the physical burden does indeed lie on the woman, though I would remove that word solely. While my wife endured the lion's share of the physcial trauma dn difficulty of carrying a child, I know for a fact that I felt significant medical changes, mostly due to stress and anxiety. While the physical impacts on a man are minor they still exist. Please don't discount what paternal anxiety is. I sat up in bed unable to sleep worrying about whether the child would be healthy all the time. When my wife felt decreased fetal movement int eh last two months of pregnancy and she stopped working, I suffered hair loss and nausia on a daily basis. While her physical condition was indeed far more grave, to suggest that I felt no physical difficulties, some of which I spoek to my physician abotu and found out were common and are recognized and common with males expecting children, is wrong. I have no problem agreeing with your view that woman face massive physican trauma from pregnancy, that is why I believe you have a privacy right to have an abortion. Please understand it is very common for men to suffer physical difficulties, usually related to anxiety.

when you say it appears from your experience and observations that men have the easy route here, I assume you are talking about the physcial and medical issues involved in pregnancy and delivery. In that case, I agree, carrying a child and deliverign a child are obvously limited ot the female sex, so men have the "easy road" since we are unable to participate in these difficult conditions. I would also argue that women get the golden gift of being able to have children. My wife will have a bond with our daughter that I can never have. Its a special thing to have a child, and I think using words like "easy road" takes a little somethign away from what is a truly amazing thing. While it is funny to joke about men not being able to do it and if men had the babies we would be extinct... but I am proud to admit I am a little envious of you and my wife. To be able to do that, to be able to have a child, it is incredible.

I consider myself a caring and compassionate man. I realize the difficulties that my wife had to face everyday during our pregnancy, but I use the term "our" to describe that condition. During her pregnancy I did my best to help, whether it was foot rubs or picking up Taco Bell (which is a little "thing" for us because I hate fast food and she LOVES Taco Bell). I also did my best to keep her mood positive and her health strong (mostly by limiting the Taco Bell and cookign her healthier meals).

[CybAnt]

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]While I agree that abortion is a choice for a woman to make, I don't think the choice comes from a reproductive right.


Choice is the fundamental reproductive right.

No woman should be forced to bring a pregnancy to term - OR forced to end a pregnancy if they don't want to.

There were states taking away welfare mother's possibilities of reproducing by forcing them to go on Norplant while on welfare. I think that is taking away reproductive rights. So is China's policy, which forces you to have only 1 child, often resulting in the infanticide of girls....

I'm with planned parenthood - every pregnancy a wanted pregnancy, every child a wanted child - that is the fundamental reproductive right, family planning, which includes access to safe & effective contraceptives.