War Veterans Sound Off ~ Iraq War & BushCo [Archive]

101Scout

08-30-2006, 08:00 PM

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I hate Chickenhawks! I left a wife and infant son to serve my country; fought on Iwo Jima, was wounded and decorated. Had 3 sons who volunteered for for Vietnam and served their country there, 2 Marines and 1 Army. It's not idle chatter on my part, unlike Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and company. The Whelan's served their country proudly and willingly!
--John R Whelan, USMC, 1943-1946

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My service included a year at Pearl Harbor during WW II and I was there when the war with Japan ended. Violence only leads to more violence, and this is particularly true when nations don't go to the trouble to understand each other. The current president has only succeeded in uniting the Arab world against us. Our children and grandchildren will reap the whirlwind of his reckless policies. This president wants to scare the American people into going along with endless war. He is merely succeeding in frightening many of us in his willingness to desecrate the Constitution and spy on innocent Americans. Sadly, many of our children's generation do not "get" this and would unwittingly go along with this administration's destruction of everything our soldiers stood and fought and died for in WW II.
--Dorothy Rioux nee Glasscock, USNR (WAVES), 1943-1946

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The President has failed to complete the war on terrorism by maintaining focus on Afghanistan and has failed to capture bin Ladin which the administration now claims is not important. They lack consistency by appeasing a nuclear risk in strong North Korea and seem to try to create a scapegoat diversion by attacking the weaker country Iraq. In spite of all the canned phrases they have presented NO NEW FACTS about the "weapons of mass destruction." An occupation of Iraq will galvanize the Islamic nations behind the Fundamentalists and create the situation of worldwide estrangement that Governor Dean of VT has discussed. The armed children of Iraq and Arab suicide bombers will attack our troops causing suffering on both sides that will bring back the divisions we knew in the Vietnam war. But then what would the President and his staff know about that, most of them never served!
--Bill Jessberger, USN, 1962-1966

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I oppose unilateral military action against Iraq or any nation unless that nation threatens the security of the US (such as Cuba 1962). I further support the reinstitution of the draft that will bring home to every American family what it means to make war. Old men make war and young men die in these wars. Rumsfield said I added no value because I was a draftee. We old soldiers protected this country, didn't complain, many of us died and came home with broken bodies. It should not happen again unless we are directly threatened.
--Joseph Lubell, US Army, 1951-1959

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I was in Vietnam -- I was a combat medic -- so I know what the color of war is. It's red. I have seen and smelled too much of this red.
--Wm. Bryan Turner, US Army -- 173rd Airborne Brigade, 1969-1972

The_Bammo

08-30-2006, 09:42 PM

8th Of November Lyrics
Turn your speakers up,

He said goodbye to his momma
As he left South Dakota
To fight for the Red, White, and Blue
He was 19 in green with a new M-16
Just doin' what he had to do.

He was dropped in the jungle
Where the choppers would rumble
With the smell of napalm in the air
Then the sargeant said, "Look up ahead"

And like a dark, evil cloud
1,200 came down
on him and 29 more
They fought for their lives
But most of them died
In the 173rd Airborne

(Chorus)
On the 8th of November,
The angels were cryin'
As they carried his brothers away
With the fire rainin' down
And the Hell all around
There were few men left standin' that day
Saw the eagle fly,
Through a clear, blue sky
1965, the 8th of November

Now hes 58
And his ponytails grey
But the battle still plays in his head
He limps when he walks,
But hes strong when he talks
About the shrapnel they left in leg

He puts on a grey suit
Over his airborne tattoo
He ties it on one time a year
And remembers the fallen,
As he orders a tall one
And swallows it down with his tears

(Chorus)
On the 8th of November,
The angels were cryin'
As they carried his brothers away
With the fire rainin' down
And the Hell all around
There were few men left standin' that day
Saw the eagle fly,
Through a clear, blue sky
1965, the 8th of November

Saw the eagle fly,
Through a clear, blue sky
1965

(Chorus)
On the 8th of November,
The angels were cryin'
As they carried his brothers away
With the fire rainin' down
And the Hell all around
There were few men left standin' that day

(Chorus)
On the 8th of November,
The angels were cryin'
As they carried his brothers away
With the fire rainin' down
And the Hell all around
There were few men left standin' that day
Saw the eagle fly,
Through a clear, blue sky
1965, the 8th of November

The 8th of November
The 8th of November

He said goodbye to his momma
As he left South Dakota
To fight for the Red, White, and Blue
He was 19 in green with a new M-16
Just doin' what he had to do.

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I hear this song and was in the same damn boat, duped for fighting for a fiasco that did not mean a thing, except to survive and make sure your Bro' survived. We didn't fight for anyone's freedom, we fought for one damn thing, survival. Is that right for a country to use its G.I.'s like that and then place the blame of the fiasco on the G.I.'s shoulders?

What the hell did we as a free-ken nation learn from Vietnam?

From what I see with the "SHRUB" fiasco, not a damn thing!

How many more must die and bleed before Americans stand up and say no more?

Think the time is way over due, but it has to be done - let your elected officials no that you object to this Chickenhawk NeoCon BS, and lets not stop until we are the hell out of this BS. Do what you can and a little more to end this violent BS that the NeoCons put us in. Write the editor, protest, contact your politicians with deep concern and objection and do not quit.

Your paying for this show, so time to shut it down!

Hang Tough~

The_Bammo

08-30-2006, 09:45 PM

There are children standing here,
Arms outstretched into the sky,
Tears drying on their face.
He [Bush] has been here.
Brothers lie in shallow graves.
Fathers lost without a trace.
A nation blind to their disgrace,
Since he's been here.
And I see no bravery,
No bravery in your eyes anymore.
Only sadness.
Houses burnt beyond repair.
The smell of death is in the air.
A woman weeping in despair says,
He has been here.
Tracer lighting up the sky.
It's another families' turn to die.
A child afraid to even cry out says,
He has been here.
And I see no bravery,
No bravery in your eyes anymore.
Only sadness.
There are children standing here,
Arms outstretched into the sky,
But no one asks the question why,
He has been here.
Old men kneel and accept their fate.
Wives and daughters cut and raped.
A generation drenched in hate.
Yes, he has been here. And I see no bravery,
No bravery in your eyes anymore.
Only sadness.

The_Bammo

08-30-2006, 09:49 PM

VIDEO: Rumsfeld Compares Iraq War Critics To Hitler Appeasers

In a speech to the American Legion yesterday, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld continued his blistering attack on critics ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) of the administration’s Iraq war policy.
Rumsfeld compared critics of his policies to people “in the decades before World War II” who believed Hitler “could be appeased” and “argued that the fascist threat was exaggerated — or that it was someone else’s problem.” People critical of his current efforts, according to Rumsfeld, “have still not learned history’s lessons.”
Rumsfeld added, “any moral or intellectual confusion about who and what is right or wrong can weaken the ability of free societies to persevere.” Watch it:

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Check out Rummy the Chickenhawk Neocon in action! Makes me free-ken sick!

The_Bammo

08-30-2006, 09:58 PM

Bush Talks Nonsense With Brian Williams

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Posted on Aug 30, 2006

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Watch ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) with amazement as our commander in chief mangles the English language, and speaks nonsensically about the war in Iraq, America’s standing in the world, his relationship with his father, and Albert Camus. (Via crooksandliars ([Only registered and activated users can see links]-9910))

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Crooks and Liars:
For someone who does not like how the public perceives him, Bush does not help his case any in this interview. Take this little exchange:
WILLIAMS: When you take a tour of the world, a lot of Americans e-mail me with their fears that, some days they just wake up and it just feels like the end of the world is near. And you go from North Korea to Iran, to Iraq, to Afghanistan, and you look at how things have changed, how Americans are viewed overseas, if that is important to you. Do you have any moments of doubt that we fought a wrong war? Or that there’s something wrong with the perception of America overseas?
BUSH: Well those are two different questions, did we fight the wrong war, and absolutely — I have no doubt — the war came to our shores, remember that. We had a foreign policy that basically said, let’s hope calm works. And we were attacked.

101Scout

09-01-2006, 02:07 PM

BUSH: Well those are two different questions, did we fight the wrong war, and absolutely — I have no doubt — the war came to our shores, remember that. We had a foreign policy that basically said, let’s hope calm works. And we were attacked.

Now at that point, why can't interviewers then say right back to Bush " Wasn't there previous actions by our own 'operations' and 'interventions' that provoke such retaliations that brought 'war' to our shores?"

:fighting0056[1]:

101Scout

09-01-2006, 03:45 PM

I am not a pacifist and served two tours of duty in Korea and one in Vietnam. Vietnam was a calculated adventure into lunacy which ruined many lives and destroyed families. Don’t make the same mistake again!
-- Joseph Moore, US Army, 1958-1966

Our military is here to ensure the peace and safety of America, not to
bolster the Chickenhawks manhood!
--Ben Larson USAF, 1968-1992

I believe that war is too serious a commitment to be left to an
elite few to decide on. I believe that we should have full and open debate before acting. This debate should include full disclosure of the facts and history of the conflict, before the people make the decision. We Americans need to realize that Truth is the first victim in any war and then the soldiers and civilians and the earth. We need the facts about the goals and costs before such a commitment is approved.
--Stanley (Stosh) Comisiak, US Army, 1965-1968

I fought in one senseless war that wasted 58,000 American lives. Those lost lives were poor and middle-class kids. The privileged were excluded. Now they, the privileged, are sending another generation of poor and middle-class kids to die in vain again. If these CHICKENHAWKS had to send their kids there would be no war.
-- Robert Myers, USN, 1966-1970

I believe we need to stop Saddam. But there are other ways. I believe the last attack on Iraq in 91 is the reason for so much terrorist activity since.
--Kevin Hutchcraft, USN, 1970-1974

I am a Vietnam vet. I did not go to Canada; I did not join the Reserves or the Guard because all those slots were filled with people like Bush. Bush did not want to fight for his country then, but he wants others to fight for him now. North Korea presents a bigger threat than Iraq, but Iraq is the weaker country. I have no respect for Bush or any of his followers and will oppose this war till the cows come home.
--Jim Keen, US Army, 1966-1968

101Scout

09-04-2006, 02:09 PM

I am a 77 year old former W.W. II U.S.M.C. machine gunner who spent 2 1/2 years in the Pacific jungles fighting Japanese SOLDIERS (not children, women and noncombatants like AWOL Bush does)to preserve America’s Constitutional liberties. It is refreshing to learn there are NOW more of you Americans, combat vets, who have known the tragedy of combat coming forward and telling dumbo Bush and his chicken hawk friends, who think war is a child's game or like it is viewed on T.V., that war is not the answer.

I have been writing and complaining to Bush and our elected representatives, both Democrat and Republican, ever since Bush went on his rampage for oil, money and power, at the expense of us grunts. Think about it, you war mongers--children, women, noncombatants killed, cities, homes, infrastructure destroyed. Are Iraqi children less precious than American kids? Please, if you are an American mom, try to place yourself in the place of an Iraqi mother. How would you feel knowing in minutes your home, husband and children would be incinerated by a bomb carrying depleted uranium.

I do understand how Bush can be so callous, because he is dumb and unfeeling, but it is mystifying to me how a woman, especially with children, cannot be painfully hurt for the Iraqi mothers. Finally, no country is a threat to America, so we should be a peaceful nation, and concentrate using our tax dollars on providing those social services needed by millions of American citizens instead of on war.
--Albert C. Mezzetti, USMC 9 years

I was witness to the lies and misinformation concerning the U.S. bombing in Laos. I watched Nixon lie night after night, on the evening news. I've read excerpts of the Pentagon Papers. Do the American people think that the U.S. government has really changed the policy on foreign affairs? We are a nation of well intended individuals being led into a direct conflict, with the entire free thinking world. Our weapons can’t win that one.
--Larry D. (Dan) Pruitt, USAF, 1967-1974

I have served with the Army, National Guard and Army Reserve since I enlisted while still a senior in high school 27 years ago. I have trained all of my adult life to defend my country, and will gladly do so if called upon today. However, the actions of our leadership compel me to tender my retirement from uniformed service eight years prior to my mandatory removal date. I choose not to participate in a unilateral war of first strike aggression against an "enemy" which poses no threat to the people of the United States of America. Some may call me naive, or worse, yet I equate the President’s actions with "blitzkrieg."
--Mitchell E. Green, U.S. Army, ARNG, USAR, 1976-2003

I am appalled at the unconstitutional way that President Bush is proceeding on his way to avenging the ego of his father. The coming war with Iraq will be neither just, nor constitutional. Our "leader's" actions are immoral, unethical, unconstitutional, and the antithesis of the principles upon which our republic was founded.
--Andrew J. Miller, USAF, 1977-1990

Do not allow our military to police the world. Do not allow our military to become pawns of corrupt and arrogant politicians and corporations. Peace is patriotic.
--Ronald Mauer, US Marine Corps, 4 Years

The_Bammo

09-04-2006, 03:07 PM

The Good Soldier
chron.com, September 1, 2006

Former U.S. Sen. Max Cleland, D-Ga., is a living embodiment of what Americans owe veterans. Having lost three limbs in Vietnam, Cleland now bluntly, boldly and effectively advocates for fellow soldiers. Last week, in his latest act of public service, he announced he is being treated for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Though Cleland gave few details, he told the Associated Press he hoped his candor would encourage other veterans to get help.

PTSD, which is often commingled with depression, can manifest itself years after a trauma in anxiety, hypervigilance and flashbacks. The Department of Veterans Affairs last year reported that PTSD cases rose from 120,265 in 1999 to 215,871 in 2004.

Cleland's original trauma presumably occurred in the 1970s, when the decorated veteran served in Vietnam. But Cleland exemplifies the reality that war wounds, both physical and psychological, may never fully heal.

Yet Cleland is also a tonic example that disability should not exclude most Americans from public life. Since Vietnam, Cleland has plunged into the political fray, improving veterans' shoddy benefits as the VA administrator under Jimmy Carter, serving in the U.S. Senate and supporting presidential candidate John Kerry and Iraq war critic Rep. John Murtha, D-Pa.

Cleland surely knew politics was rough. Yet his honorable public work has exposed a savage streak in Republican political operatives and in some ordinary Americans. During the presidential campaign of 2004 and Cleland's senatorial race in 2002 and, incredibly, after he announced his treatment this month, political opponents whispered and sometimes bayed aspersions on his courage.

The same attackers have maligned the records of other veterans, including U.S. Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., and Murtha. This disgraceful political strategy hacks at the very qualities Americans esteem in a candidate.

President Bush told the American Legion convention in Salt Lake City, Utah, this week that the nation owes veterans more than thanks. We certainly owe them the decency to refrain from distorting their war records.

But these attacks on veterans are also reinforced by American's longstanding unease with paying public debts.

As far back as the 1920s, veterans had to march on Washington to demand unpaid pensions.

Through his physical presence, his advocacy and his fearless discussion of the damage from combat, Max Cleland rightly insists that the debt Americans owe veterans must not be denied.

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The_Bammo

09-04-2006, 09:20 PM

Vietnam War Widow for Impeachment and Peace writes about PSTD
by Penny Coleman
West Point
My name is Penny Coleman, and I am a Vietnam war widow for impeachment and for peace.
My husband Daniel came home from Vietnam in 1970 with what is now known as Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. He lived with his memories, his flashbacks, for years, and when he could not longer bear to live, he took his own life.
What Daniel suffered was an injury, an injury directly caused by the horror and the terror of war. That injury was finally as lethal as any bullet or bomb. In his memory, I want to talk today about the psychic wounds of soldiers as yet one more hidden cost of this appalling war-- and one more reason to support our troops.
In the only meaningful way.
By bringing them home.
Nobody knows how many Vietnam veterans killed themselves after they came home because for thirty-five years the military has refused to track or count them. Many historians, scientists, and psychiatrists believe that more vets have killed themselves since coming home than there are names on the Wall. What is undeniably true is that tens of thousands of husbands, sons and fathers who fought in that war were injured in mind and heart, their souls sickened by what they witnessed or by what they did.
What's happening now to our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan threatens to be worse than what happened after Vietnam. During the Vietnam war, soldiers only spent a year in combat and then they came home. These soldiers are being sent back into combat--over and over again. They are shamed when they ask for help, abused by their officers who threaten them with courts martial and call them weak or cowards. Recruiters are grabbing kids with well-documented mental health problems, everything from psychoses to bi-polarity, to depression and autism, sucking them up anyway to meet their quotas, and spitting them out in Baghdad. If they make enough noise, threaten suicide often enough, they are given anti-depressants and sent back out for another dose of human carnage.
What is happening in this regard is typical of this administration's double-speak about supporting the troops. This war is costing $3.5 billion a week, but Support the Troops means don't bother with body armor?
Support the Troops, but cut their hazardous duty pay?
Support the Troops, but don't let them come home when their tour is done?
Support the Troops, but under-fund the VA health care system-by $1.5 billion in 2005, by twice that in 2006?
The under-funding is so bad that they tried charging wounded soldiers at Walter Reed for their lunches. VA hospitals are running out of prosthetic devices. Veterans wait more than a year for an appointment with a primary care doctor. And they don't get individual therapy for their PTSD; they wait in line for over-enrolled therapy groups. And far too often, they are dying by their own hands before even being seen by a doctor.
So support them as long as they are fit to fight, as long as they can be used as tools to forward agendas of power and greed-- then discard them like junk?
That's not supporting the troops.
My husband Daniel was a sweet, idealistic, beautiful man who decided he couldn't live with what had happened to him in Vietnam. And so I want to focus today the lack of attention that the administration and the military are paying to suicide and Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. The cynical lack of regard for the psychic wounds of soldiers should not surprise any of us. But it must appall us. Soldier suicides in Iraq and Afghanistan are still not reported. They are hidden in the generic category of non-combat deaths. Veteran suicides are reported only in home-town newspapers, locally mourned and nationally ignored.
The suicide rate among active-duty soldiers is 40% higher than when the war began. The military says they are not alarmed. They say the problem is the veterans themselves-their individual finances, relationships, "personal" stuff. The military has so normalized war, they don't even see it as the source of the problem. And the administration is so invested in war, they will do anything to keep us from seeing it as the source of the problem.
The psychic wounds of the soldiers in Iraq aren't going to go away. One third of the soldiers coming back, and this is Defense Department numbers, one third have psychiatric problems. That means that more than 400,000 soldiers are already in need of immediate help. Quick intervention may help some avoid full-blown, life-destroying PTSD. Without it, these young men and women will suffer the effects of their combat experience for the rest of their lives. Every day, sometimes all day, forever. These kids who are coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan will not wake up some day-and that assumes that they were able to sleep the night before--and be free nightmares and flashbacks. All too many of them will continue to have startle responses and trouble managing their anger for the rest of their lives. They will abuse substances to help them forget. They will lose their jobs, their families, their homes-and far too often their lives.
This is an obscene war for many reasons. But the callous disregard of this administration for the lives of soldiers and veterans is among the most heart-breaking, not to mention hypocritical, of their failures.
Since the Revolutionary War, Americans have promised to take care of their wounded soldiers. If we decide we can't afford to do that, if we decide that the cost has simply become too high, and I would suggest that it has always been too high, then what we are saying is that we can't afford to use soldiers to solve our problems.
What soldiers and veterans cannot forgive or forget is a measure of their humanity, not of their weakness. On Memorial Day especially we should remember that their despair is ours as well to carry. Like the war we fought in Vietnam, this war is making us all sick, soldiers and citizens alike. Its weight should serve as a constant reminder that the cost of war is simply and always too high. The cost is our souls and our future.
Penny Coleman authored the just-released Flashback ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), a study of PTSD she embarked on after her husband, a Vietnam veteran, committed suicide.

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The_Bammo

09-04-2006, 09:24 PM

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Dedicated to memorializing Vietnam Veterans who have taken their own lives, to gather the names of them and offer the stories for others, to offer links to Vietnam Veteran organizations, and to provide information about the book Suicide Wall by Alexander Paul. At this site, you can view names of veterans registered on this SUICIDE WALL ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) of the internet.
STARTLING STATISTICS
Estimates vary on the number of Vietnam veterans who have committed suicide, the definition of suicide can be ambiguous, and there is no other reporting method that we know. Estimates range from 20,000 to 200,000 suicides. Please click on Suicide Statistics ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) for further information.

THE PROPOSED WALL
The concept of a second Vietnam memorial, an actual white marble wall in Washington, D.C. comes from the the novel, Suicide Wall ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) , by Alexander Paul. This additional memorial wall would list the names of the Vietnam Veterans who have taken their lives since the war.
ONLINE REGISTRATION
This site will serve as the electronic equivalent of the proposed Suicide Wall. Its purpose is to promote awareness of this issue and to encourage healing. It provides a system for the online registration ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) of the names of Vietnam Veterans who killed themselves after the war, to determine how many there were, to memorialize their loss, and to resolve that the United States of America will never again risk the lives of its soldiers in a war unless it is willing to prosecute that war with full resolve (See United States Resolution ([Only registered and activated users can see links])).

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The_Bammo

09-04-2006, 09:38 PM

Veterans and Military Families Hold Press Conference and Day of Events to Open Camp Democracy September 5th
WASHINGTON - September 4 - September 5th in Washington DC will witness the opening of a 17-day event called Camp Democracy, a non-partisan camp for peace and democracy, focusing on ending the war in Iraq, righting injustices here at home and on holding accountable the Bush Administration and Congress.
WHO: Veterans of the Iraq War and Other Conflicts, Military and Gold Star Families
WHAT: Silent Procession, Press Conference, and Day of Activities to Open Camp Democracy
WHERE: Camp Democracy will be located at Constitution Avenue and 14th Street NW
WHEN: Tuesday, September 5, 2006
Summary of events on Tuesday, September 5, 2006:
For a full schedule of events, go to: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
8 a.m. to 9:45 a.m. -Vigil, March around Capitol Building to remember the fallen and remind Congress of the human cost of the War in Iraq (visuals include combat boots and shoes representing the fallen; tombstones, pictures), led by Veteran, Military and Gold Star families. Assembly point is 1st and Independence at 8:00 a.m.; procession steps off at 8:30 a.m.
10:30 a.m. to Noon
-- Opening Press Conference featuring Iraq War Veterans, Military Families, Gold Star Families, Veterans of other Conflicts
-- Opening Ceremony at Camp Democracy
-- Speak-Out featuring members of Veterans for Peace, Iraq Veterans Against the War, Military Families Speak Out, Gold Star Families Speak Out and Gold Star Families for Peace
-- 1:30 p.m. to 3:45 p.m. - Roundtable Discussion: Why We Say "Bring Them Home NOW, and How To Make That Happen (Veterans and Military Families)
-- 4:00 p.m. to 5:30 p.m. - Panel Discussion - How the U.S. anti-war/Peace and Justice movements can support reconciliation and Peace in Iraq and the greater Middle East.
-- 7:30 p.m. to 9:30 p.m. – Sneak Preview Film Screening: "The Ground Truth" - Iraq Veterans talk about their wounds of war, and the hidden wounds of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder; followed by a panel of Veterans and Military Families discussing Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Opening soon in major theaters across the country.
-- 9:30 p.m. to 11:00 p.m. - Concert featuring Anne Feeney [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) and Emma's Revolution [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

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101Scout

09-05-2006, 02:50 PM

The_Bammo

09-05-2006, 03:59 PM

Bammo;

How's it make you feel when you read some other poster's (usually lifers) bullshit about how us 'Nam vets don't know squat about what's going down in this IraqNam lie war? Isn't it really petty on their part to actually deem us as being too old... too over the hill.... too unknowledgable with what's going on with today's war(s)?

To think that there's lifers (not all of them) in today's military who are training their kids to be like they are with such brainwashed mentality? Doesn't that scare you in how young adults 17 - 20 are lead into such brainwashing training camps based on such attitudes?

Yeah Bro' I see where your comin' from - but you got to consider the lifer' sauce (LOL). Take - lets say - some 30 year Marine Lifer (self proclaimed professional) who doesn't believe in PTSD, backs the "SHRUB" war --voted for SHRUB. Hell even claimed to have humped a 120 lb radio plus his gear (LOL) in the field ! Compared Grenada to Vietnam - even said he got shot at more than a combat Vietnam Vet. And this sorry sack of sheet said he joined in 1970 and claims we are obsolete and don't no jack sheet about war. Like this desk jockey does!! Free-ken phonie azzhole.

Consider the lifer's credability, and this sorry pig has none! (lifers are not my favorite people as you can see- and there is a big difference between a lifer pig and a career soldier)

Better yet Bro', I really think this sucker is jealous he chickened out on going to Nam! Thats where his lifer head is. (up his azz) And when he gets nailed for his BS, he goes cryin' to mommy dearest. Whats that tell ya' ! Sorry SOB - thats what I get! LOL

Consider the sauce and I bet this so called Marine devours quite a bit.

Hang Tough~

101Scout

09-05-2006, 06:18 PM

Yeah Bro' I see where your comin' from - but you got to consider the lifer' sauce (LOL). Take - lets say - some 30 year Marine Lifer (self proclaimed professional) who doesn't believe in PTSD, backs the "SHRUB" war --voted for SHRUB. Hell even claimed to have humped a 120 lb radio plus his gear (LOL) in the field ! Compared Grenada to Vietnam - even said he got shot at more than a combat Vietnam Vet. And this sorry sack of sheet said he joined in 1970 and claims we are obsolete and don't no jack sheet about war. Like this desk jockey does!! Free-ken phonie azzhole.

Consider the lifer's credability, and this sorry pig has none! (lifers are not my favorite people as you can see- and there is a big difference between a lifer pig and a career soldier)

Better yet Bro', I really think this sucker is jealous he chickened out on going to Nam! Thats where his lifer head is. (up his azz) And when he gets nailed for his BS, he goes cryin' to mommy dearest. Whats that tell ya' ! Sorry SOB - thats what I get! LOL

Consider the sauce and I bet this so called Marine devours quite a bit.

Hang Tough~

Well Bammo, I sure know the skunk you're speaking about in your last response. That one was a real bs trip and still is, as he closely operates with another wannabee war vet.... the Ace in the Hole from those few neocon message boards. I found it also as amazing how the admins and mods of those forums could even support the likes of such bullshit artists. The one we call maurice did nothing but taunt me (and you) in our efforts to expose the lies and failed command of both Afghanistan and Iraq Wars... while at the same time putting down our expertise as war vets of Vietnam. Hell I'm no seasoned expert, even though I was there, but I sure the hell know more crap about war than that maurice does by first hand experiences over his DoD Bush flavored propaganda.

I know that most of my predictions about the ME wars have come true (as well as yours Bammo) from two years ago, and yet we were ridiculed by those RA skunks for what we shared in both our experiences in Vietnam and our projections about BushCo and the faked out Iraq War fiasco. Now we have to ask ourselves, what's with all of that? Why did so many other members (not all) shy away from standing along side of us in that matter bro? It's as if many members found is safer to agree with the avatar/picture posting kings of the RA more than siding with experience and truth. That's what sets my ass on fire! Too many damn weak kneed sheeple afraid to kick bullshitters in the crouch for their bs lies and smokescreens for BushCo!!

The_Bammo

09-07-2006, 10:30 PM

Local War Vets Take Fight Against Government Over DU Exposure To Court
[Only registered and activated users can see links] September 07, 2006

They fought for their country in Iraq, and now they are fighting their government over an illness that they say can be directly linked to their service. NY1's Dean Meminger filed the following report.

A group of New York Iraq war veterans are in a battle against their own military and government, and they are hoping the Federal courts will come to their rescue.

On Wednesday a judge held a hearing to determine if the nine veterans have the right to sue because they were exposed to depleted uranium from U.S. military weapons and equipment while in Iraq.

"This is not only for us, but for every soldier that is serving in Iraq right now that has a family. This affects everyone," said veteran Agustin Matos.

The vets were a part of the New York National Guard when they were shipped to Iraq to be military police. They complain of numerous health problems, and they say depleted uranium, or DU, is to blame.

DU is a slightly radioactive heavy metal left over in the process of creating nuclear fuel. The military uses it in missiles and tanks to make them stronger, but when it's hit or explodes, soldiers can get wounded by radioactive shrapnel or breathe in radioactive particles.

The soldiers came forward in 2004 saying private doctors confirmed they had high levels of DU but the military has said the levels are safe. The vets say they were never trained correctly about DU and military doctors didn't diagnosis them correctly.

"They knew about treatments and preventative measures," said veteran Jerry Ogeda.

"The biggest danger that these guys faced, as it turned out, in their lives was from our own government," said attorney George Zelma.

The government argues that the soldiers can not sue for injuries suffered while on active duty.
But the soldiers' wives and children want to sue as well. Gerard Mathew says his daughter was born with a deformed hand because of his DU.

"She can't really come out and say how she feels or what's going on," he said. "So to have this in the court today, regardless of what happens, will show that her father and her friends, who also came out to convey a message, do care. And that we not only care about ourselves, but about our fellow soldiers who are over there right now that don't even know what is going on."

The soldiers say that if the judge rules against them, they will come up with other strategies to make the government and military compensate them for their DU exposure.

The judge did not indicate when he'll make his decision.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The_Bammo

09-07-2006, 10:49 PM

Now this Bro' has a big pair! Damn, imagine going against the country fad of "I support the Troop" - this Nam Combat Vet seems to have his own oppinion, and I respect his oppinion - why - this support the Troop BS is clique mentality. How many people are actually visiting Vets of this SHRUB fiasco in Military Hospitals and VAMC'S alike? In the VAMC I go to, the answer is very little if any. Any that disagree - tell me what real support is to the G.I. of this country--keeping him/her in harms way based on lies!!! Fill me in on your oppinions. Me and this Nam combat Vet (not a in country Vet---COMBAT) want to know where we are wrong. I personally agree with the message between the lines of this one --for sure! Yo go Bro!!

Read it twice before you put it on rock and roll and assault, there is a message here for all to see and comprehend. If this dumb ass grunt, biker tash can see it - anyone can.

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I don't support the U.S. troops. There, I said it
By Chas Chiodo
High Springs Resident
Guest Column

I am a Vietnam combat veteran and I don't support the troops.

I'll protest in the streets, and when the troops come home, I'll help them get the benefits and treatment they need and deserve.

Many people "oppose the war but support the troops." I don't buy it.

The kid next door may now be engaged in massacres and atrocities overseas. "The troops" are waging war against a civilian population, without distinguishing between "insurgents" and innocents. When faced with snipers, mines, ambushes and treachery by supposed "allies," even the best-trained occupation armies soon become demoralized and brutal.

A doctor in Baghdad recently said, "There are many, many, many cases like Haditha that are still undercover and need to be highlighted in Iraq."

Americans are convinced that however evil, wicked, and misguided the president might have been to launch the war, the soldiers who wage it are overwhelmingly dedicated and honorable.

Yes, atrocities happen in all wars, but they are still wrong. The average person thinks that "99.9 percent of the troops" are as pure as driven snow, our "best and brightest."

I don't buy either of those jingoistic platitudes. The military is composed of all kinds of people, including a fair share of losers, brutes and blood-thirsty thugs.

I was in the Army in Vietnam, assisting Marines. The first "enemy" I saw was a Viet Cong being dragged around by those "few good men." When they were through with him, he lost half his face and died.

I saw torture and mistreatment of the "enemy," civilians, and even our own troops by the Marines, my own unit and South Korean troops. I was threatened by members of my unit because I wouldn't assist in their misdeeds.

Every member of the U.S. force in Iraq is engaged in "a war of unprovoked aggression" and bears some guilt for participating in an evil enterprise. The man who drives a supply truck is not as responsible as the man who shoots a baby, but all of our forces are guilty to some degree.

Doing wrong is doing wrong, whether or not someone says killing in war is OK. Bush ordered the soldiers to war, but they chose to obey. When the Nazis at Nuremberg claimed they were "only following orders," they received no mercy, nor did they deserve any.

The enlisted men and women are less culpable than Bush, but nobody involved in this criminal undertaking is entitled to a clean bill of moral health.

The longer U.S. forces stay in Iraq, the more violent and undisciplined they will become, and the more hated they will be. The global community sees us as the bad guys.

We have no moral reason for being in Iraq and the world knows it. The real blame for atrocities like Haditha, of course, belongs to an administration and the complicit Pentagon brass that plunged us into a gratuitous war and spit on the Geneva Conventions.

The problem is not that our military has a few bad apples. The barrel itself is rotten. Doing the bidding of thugs turns one rancid.

We always hear that the troops must obey orders. Not if they deem such orders to be illegal. They can refuse to obey and, if necessary, go to jail, go AWOL or move to another country.

These are better decisions than killing innocent civilians. I wish I had said "no." The pain of obeying bad orders lasts a long time. For each soldier, there will be two wars: The battle to stay alive and the struggle to live with what one "had to do" in order to stay alive.

In war there are no winners - only those who lose least.

Read the "true" history of this country, not the propaganda shoved down our throats in school. Discover the horrible deeds our military has committed, beginning with the genocide of native Americans, followed by the overthrow of many governments, Vietnam and continuing with the bloodbath in Iraq.

The American military has killed and tortured millions of innocent people and will continue to do so unless made to stop. Who better to call for an end to this insanity than those who served in Vietnam and Iraq?

I call on my fellow vets to heed Thoreau's entreaty that we use our lives to "stop the machine" and thereby expiate our legacy of pain, suffering and death.

As David Crosby observed long ago, "You got to speak out against the madness."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The_Bammo

09-07-2006, 10:59 PM

Antiwar Message Travels From Texas to Washington

Military Families Group Expands Agenda

By Petula Dvorak ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, September 6, 2006; Page A05

The antiwar activists who picketed near the president's ranch this summer traded dusty Texas for soggy Washington yesterday, when they set up camp near the White House to continue their vigil.
"Every day, we realize there is a war in Iraq," said Charlie Richardson, co-founder of Military Families Speak Out and whose son is a U.S. Marine recently returned from Iraq. "But the vast majority of Americans don't; they forget. Less than 1 percent of this population has gone to war. And we need to get those troops out -- now."

Richardson and about 100 other military family members, veterans and peace activists kicked off a 17-day demonstration called "Camp Democracy" yesterday. With piles of military boots to represent slain soldiers and banners calling for an end to the war as their backdrop, they rallied in the pouring rain and stayed throughout the day's relentless drizzle.
Camp Democracy, a spinoff from Camp Casey in Crawford, Tex., started by antiwar activist Cindy Sheehan, will feature a series of speeches, lectures and discussions under white tents pitched on the Mall at 14th Street and Constitution Avenue NW.
Sheehan, whose older son, Casey, was killed in Iraq in 2004, started the Crawford protest camp early last month on a five-acre lot she bought in July, after her roadside vigil last year drew about 10,000 supporters from across the country. She wasn't in Washington yesterday, but organizers expect she will be a speaker before they pull up stakes.
The main voices heard yesterday were those of veterans.
Charlie Anderson, 29, spoke loudly through the rainstorm. "I was so optimistic," said the Toledo native, who joined the military when he was 19. Then he "rode into Iraq without body armor," he said. And "I had no idea what the mission was, because it was changing every day."
Dozens of other veterans nodded when Anderson said this. A Vietnam War veteran in a wheelchair clapped. A naval recruiter from the Vietnam era raised her fist in the air. A Gulf War veteran mouthed the word "yes."
They talked about shortfalls in veterans' benefits and medical care. They discussed ways to end the war and tactics to starve the war machine of its essential fuel -- young recruits like them.
"I've been to dozens and dozens of counter-recruitment actions," said Joe Hatcher, who served in Dawr, Iraq, from February 2004 until March 2005 with the 1st Infantry Division. Now, the 25-year-old California native tours the country and sets up camp outside schools, where he gives students his real-life version of the recruiters' pitch about military life. His group also advises families on ways to opt out of military recruiting.
Camp Democracy will have similar themes every day for the next few weeks: Organizing the Progressive Agenda Day, which will feature several members of Congress; Immigrants' Rights Day; Labor Speaks Out Day; Climate Crisis Day; and others.
Camp Democracy has no single message, though its organizers said they wanted the veterans and their families front and center because "they are the ones affected most by this war, except for the Iraqi people," said David Swanson, coordinator of Camp Democracy, which was born when the people protesting in Crawford wondered what they could do next.
The variously themed days and speakers from causes across the spectrum are one way to demonstrate that war affects all parts of American life, organizers said. They want to show that funding to rebuild New Orleans is hamstrung by war costs, and immigration legislation is threatened by the drumbeat of war on foreign soil, Swanson said.
"People keep telling us that this will muddle our message," Swanson said. "But this is not a three-week PR campaign. It's more complicated than that. We're trying to bring people together to make a stronger movement."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The_Bammo

09-07-2006, 11:35 PM

Very Good link on calling the American Legin exactly what it is!
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Rummy and the American Legion of Lemmings (Part II) ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

by Jeff Huber ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Thu Sep 07, 2006 at 10:57:25 AM EST
Bumped (originally posted Thu Sep 07, 2006 at 08:58:21 AM CST). -wander The American Legion, 2.7 million members strong, is the largest of America's veterans' service organizations. The Legion does a lot of good things for U.S. war veterans, not the least of which is its congressional lobbing efforts on behalf of Veterans Administration funding. But the Legion is also an ultraconservative political and social activist group, one that promotes policies and agendas that have little to do with veterans' rights.

Commentary ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) :: ::

The American Legion did not evolve into a tool of conservative causes over a period of time. Formed in 1919, one of its first actions ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) was to attack the headquarters of the Industrial Workers of the World (IWW) headquarters in Centralia, Washington on Armistice Day as part of the effort to squash the organized labor movement in America. Five Legion members were killed in the raid. In revenge, Legionnaires formed lynch mobs and conducted door-to-door searches for IWW members and sympathizers. IWW organizer Wesley Everest was tortured, castrated, and hung by his neck from a bridge.
Today's Legion is nowhere near that violent, but its right wing philosophical bent is as evident as ever, as witnessed by the neoconservative circus they sponsored last week in Salt Lake City, Utah at which George W. Bush, Condoleeza Rice, and Donald Rumsfeld were keynote speakers.
"For God and Country" and War without End, Amen
The preamble to the American Legion's constitution ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) begins with the motto "For God and Country," and pledges the organization to "to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States of America" and "to foster and perpetuate a one hundred percent Americanism." The Legion's idea of upholding the U.S. Constitution reflects an interpretation of that document that matches Attorney General Alberto Gonzales's view of it--an interpretation that conveniently supports one hundred percent neoconservatism.
One of the best examples of the Legion's adherence to the Karl Rove propaganda playbook is its Resolution 169 ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) titled "The War on Terrorism: A Guide to Building Public Awareness" that the Legion adopted during its 2005 convention in Hawaii.
In his introductory letter to the resolution, Legion commander Thomas L. Bock ran through the entire menu of neoconservative talking points. You can't separate the war in Iraq from the war on terror, and you can't separate support for the troops from support for the war.
Bock also tells his Vietnam era membership to remember how war protestors--and by inference the media that encouraged opposition to the war--aided the enemy and led to American defeat in that conflict. This is the most cynical and dishonest propaganda ploy in the pro-war right's bag of cheap tricks. The media and the war protestors didn't lose the Vietnam Conflict. Vietnam was lost by bad politicians and bad generals who started a bad war on bad pretexts and ran it badly for over a decade.
Today, the American Legion is abetting the same line of horse feathers to support the Bush administration and its agendas and policies. It's not the fault of young Mister Bush or old Messrs Cheney and Rumsfeld or any of the rest of the bad men of the neoconservative cabal that America's misadventures in Afghanistan and Iraq have put our ship of state bow down in the water. It's those pesky old liberal reporters, and the likes of that wicked old Cindy Sheehan that don't know how to practice their rights to freedom of speech in a "responsible" manner.
According to Resolution 169, Iraq War protestors "are not only causing additional pain and anguish to America's heroes, they are also encouraging the enemy, thereby lengthening the war."
War protestors who want the war to stop are lengthening the war? Come on, American Legion.
Proposition 169 acknowledges the right of war protestors to speak out, but admonishes them to limit their activities to things like writing letters to their local newspapers, e-mailing their representatives in Congress, and voting against political candidates whose stances on the war they find objectionable. In other words, anyone who disagrees with the administration's policies and war strategies should feel free to voice their opinions as long as they do so in a way that no one can hear them.
And that fed directly into Donald Rumsfeld's speech ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) at the 2006 Legion convention in Salt Lake City, Utah, where he accused Iraq War critics of "moral" and "intellectual" confusion.
If there's any moral or intellectual confusion going on in this country, it's occurring at the level of the federal government that Rumsfeld occupies and in neoconservative echo chamber pot organizations like the American Legion that support the morally and intellectually bankrupt Bush regime.
As a rule, I don't like to paint all individuals in an organization with the same brush, but in the case of the American Legion I'll make an exception. Legionnaires typify the mindless right. They're by and large a bunch of ex-G.I. working class stiffs who have bought into the illusion that being good little soldiers and good little Republicans makes them part of the ruling class. But the sad truth is that they're just another band of brothers sitting in the back of the bus.
The American Legion has every right to exist, and every right to take whatever political stances it cares to take. But as a retired military veteran, I find its very existence offensive. I didn't spend the prime of my adult life defending the constitution to sit by idly and watch the key players in and around the Bush administration wipe their feet on it, or to remain silent as a self-styled "veterans' service organization" actively helps them do it.
The American Legion's "God and Country" dogma is a key component of the neoconservative agenda to turn the "land of the free" into the "land of the lemmings." No amount of support for community projects or amateur baseball can justify or forgive the Legion's role in driving the United States' government system toward a militaristic, theocratic oligarchy. And Legionnaires who insist on adhering to the red, white and blue brainwash that the likes of Thomas L. Bock pours down their throats by the pitcher may want to pay heed to Samuel Johnson's ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) admonition that "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

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Couldn't of put it better! Excellent--for sure!

Hang Tough~

The_Bammo

09-08-2006, 09:23 AM

Came across what I consider a very interesting article. Some might think it is radical, some might think its BS, I personally think its quite possible IMHO.
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[Only registered and activated users can see links]

False Flag Operations: Declassified Military Documents Show How US Government Planned Terrorist Attacks Against its Own Citizens
Confirmed in an ABC News article and the National Security Archive of the George Washington University, shocking formerly top secret 1962 military documents, now declassified, provide irrefutable evidence that the Joint Chiefs of Staff & Chairman, the top US military leaders, planned and authorized terrorist attacks to kill American citizens. It involved using airplanes, blowing up a US ship and even orchestrating violent terrorism in American cities using fabricated evidence to falsely incriminate the Cuban government in order to justify an unpopular war to remove Castro from power.
As reported by ABC News, stunning military documents codenamed "Operation Northwoods" were declassified in recent years and show how in 1962, the top US military leaders planned an operation to create terror attacks against its own cities and kill US citizens.
The documents state that through the fabrication of false evidence, the US would blame Cuba and gain public support for an unpopular war against Castro. They included developing a fake Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, the use of airplanes, and much more...

For further details, the now declassified military documents are available at the National Security Archive of the George Washington University: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

In his newly published book "Towers of Deception – The Media Cover-Up of 9/11," Barrie Zwicker, writes about Operation Northwoods and many other such operations that the military and intelligence community refer to as "false flag operations." [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Zwicker is a lifelong journalist who was a media critic for 35 years and who often appeared on Canadian national TV and radio.

His book explains that these covert operations are designed to appear as if they are being carried out by other entities, such as other countries or terrorist groups, to help demonize them and justify wars for geopolitical reasons and for financial gains.

The term "false flag" is derived from the naval warfare concept of flying false colors; that is, flying the flag of a country other than one's own.

The ABC News article dated May 1, 2001 explains that Operation Northwoods was approved and signed by the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Eisenhower appointee Army General Lyman L. Lemnitzer, and was presented to Kennedy’s Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara on March 13, 1962.

A year earlier, President Eisenhower, apparently aware of such dangers, had warned the nation during his January 17, 1961 farewell address:

"In the counsels of Government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the Military Industrial Complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist. We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals so that security and liberty may prosper together." [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

General Lemnitzer, the Eisenhower appointee and highest ranking officer of the US military in 1962, recommended that Operation Northwoods be run by the military. It was signed and approved by all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the panel comprising the highest-ranking members of each major branch of the Armed Forces.

As per the ABC News article, the only reason why Operation Northwoods did not materialize in 1962 was because it was apparently turned down by President John F. Kennedy.

By law, the President of the United States is the commander in chief. The Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Joint Chiefs of Staff of the Army, the Marine Corps, the Navy, the Air Force and the Coast Guard, are all under his command.

The Joint Chiefs of Staff website explains that based on the Goldwater-Nichols DOD Reorganization Act of 1986, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff is today the principal military adviser to the President but doesn’t exercise military command over any combatant forces. [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

The ABC News article quotes author of "Body of Secrets – Anatomy of the Ultra-Secret National Security Agency," James Bamford, a former Washington Investigative Producer for ABC’s World News Tonight. He says that if such war plans against American cities were put into operation, it would have amounted to treason.

Article III, Section 3 of the U.S. Constitution states: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them..." [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Bamford goes on to say that around that time, "the Senate Foreign Relations Committee published its own report on right-wing extremism in the military, warning a ‘considerable danger’ in the ‘education and propaganda activities of military personnel’ had been uncovered. The committee even called for an examination of any ties between Lemnitzer and right-wing groups. But Congress didn't get wind of Northwoods..."

Media critic Zwicker says that today, Congress and journalists have access to the declassified documents of Operation Northwoods and that the media must indeed reflect on Eisenhower’s warning of vigilance and be willing to learn and investigate more, publish more and broadcast more information about false flag operations to help prevent such acts of treason from being committed in the future.

In his controversial book critical of both the 9/11 "official story" and the media coverage of the events, Zwicker goes through the history of false flag operations dating back to the 1600s, and among many examples, cites the February 27th,1933 fire of the German Parliament (Reichstag fire) three days prior to Germany’s federal election.

Historians later documented that the fire had been authorized by right-wing Nazis where Hitler used the event to declare a state of emergency and pressured the German President, Hindenburg, to sign a decree abolishing most of the human rights provisions of the Constitution.

Recently, on August 29th 2006, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld recounted what he called "the lessons of history," including the failed efforts to appease the right-wing Adolf Hitler regime of the 1930s.
(continued)

The_Bammo

09-08-2006, 09:27 AM

"I recount this history because once again we face the same kind of challenges in efforts to confront the rising threat of a new type of fascism," said Rumsfeld.
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

As a senior media critic, Zwicker strongly recommends that all media people indeed follow Rumsfeld’s suggestions in learning the lessons of Nazi history. He points to researching Hitler’s rise to power and how he created a fascist state where there was suppression of the opposition through secrecy, terror, torture and censorship, all justified under nationalism and patriotism.

He also believes that journalists should research and publish more about how Hitler's Nazis manipulated the German population into wars, using psychological manipulation and behavior modification by inducing trauma and fear in others, a process of trauma-based mind control referred to in the now declassified CIA files of "MK ULTRA." To order declassified MK ULTRA documents from the CIA, go to: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Zwicker believes that the media must investigate and report on whether these fear-based psychological manipulation techniques have been or are being put into application by US leaders in our post 9/11 world, as they appear to be. 9/11 caused much trauma and fear.

Concerned with the direction that the US has headed since 9/11, Dr. Robert M. Bowman, referring to the Bush / Cheney administration during a radio interview, said: "I think there's been nothing closer to fascism than what we've seen lately from this government.” [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Bowman is a retired United States Air Force Lieutenant Colonel, a recipient of the Eisenhower Medal, a former head of the US "Star Wars" space weapons program during the Reagan administration and one of America’s foremost experts on National Security.

He commented about the Patriot Act as having, "Done more to destroy the rights of Americans than all of our enemies combined."

Bowman is part of a group of notable experts called the "Scholars For 9/11 Truth" made up of professors, engineers, former intelligence and military personnel, journalists, attorneys and many other professionals who say that the 9/11 attacks raise a red flag because they have many elements of false flag operations, such as a "stand-down" of the military defense on that day, one that must be questioned.

The group, made up of several dozen scholars, believes that the media must no longer ignore the fact that a growing number of them are calling for truly independent investigations into 9/11, including investigations to look into the evidence that points towards a possible false flag operation.

For more information about the evidence that the group claims raise serious new questions, readers can visit their website: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

The group’s call for a truly independent 9/11 investigation appears to resonate with a growing number of mainstream Americans.

A May 2006 Zogby poll of 1,200 adults nationwide found that 45% of those surveyed said that Congress or an International Tribunal should re-investigate the attacks, including whether any US government officials consciously allowed or helped facilitate their success.

Part of the popularity of this growing awareness may be due in part to the millions of people who have viewed one of the most watched online videos of all time, called "Loose Change," which addresses false flag operations and raises serious new questions about the official government 9/11 story. See: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

The Zogby poll also showed that more than 42 percent believe that the government and the 9/11 Commission concealed or refused to investigate critical evidence that contradicts their official explanation of the September 11th attacks.

To view a detailed copy of the Zogby poll report, visit: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

The mainstream American public has not been alone in their frustration from lack of answers about the official 9/11 story. Addressing the White House commissioned 9/11 investigation, a September 1st, 2006 Associated Press article states that:
(continued)

The_Bammo

09-08-2006, 09:30 AM

"The Sept. 11 commission's chairmen, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton, said in their recently published book that the commission found it mind-boggling that authorities claimed that their air defenses had reacted quickly. In the book, ‘Without Precedent,’ Kean and Hamilton said the panel was so frustrated with repeated misstatements by the Pentagon and FAA about their response to the 2001 terror attacks that it considered an investigation into possible deception."
[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

On August 9th, 2006, referring to their book and to this issue, CNN’s Lou Dobbs as saying: "But the fact that they were (would) continue and perpetuate the lie, suggests that we need a full investigation of what is going on and what is demonstrably an incompetent and at worst deceitful federal government." [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

The historic reality of the deception of false flag operations is confirmed by former Justice Department prosecutor, John Loftus, who once held some of the highest security clearances in the world with special access to NATO Cosmic, CIA codeword, and Top Secret Nuclear files.

Loftus has been sought after for his terrorism expertise by Fox News, MSNBC, ABC, and many other media across the USA. In a radio interview, when asked about "Operation Northwoods," he said "Sure, yeah, yeah. But you know it, there were thousands of those plans." [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

In his book, Zwicker elaborates that false flag operations are the least-recognized, highest impact category of human deceit. He says: "False flag op is the indispensable, most dependable device rulers use to mobilize their populations, especially behind wars the rulers want."

According to a radio interview on Vancouver’s Coop radio, Zwicker believes that it is not impossible that such future events have already been planned in order to move the US towards Martial Law. [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

The media critic has concluded that not unlike Germany in the 1930s, a relatively small right-wing extremist group of rulers want more and more power, and will gradually further eliminate civil liberties by manipulating people’s minds using more Orwellian language.

He says that if the media doesn’t start paying more attention, there will be increased oppression of opposition that will likely move America, and perhaps other Western countries, towards a gradual further elimination of civil liberties. He calls this the path towards a new fascism, one controlled by a small group of ruling elites who perpetuate war after war, such as a never-ending "war on terror," to maintain their power and control.

Dr. Steven Greer has met and spoken to many intelligence, military, government and corporate whistleblowers who explain that to sustain and expand their existence in their current form, the military, industrial, intelligence, laboratory complex need a constant influx of new enemies.

Greer was told that conflicts would evolve "from Cold War, to Rogue Nations, to Global Terrorism, to the ultimate trump card: A hoaxed threat from space." [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

On a brighter note, Zwicker believes that our current path of enmification, the art and consequence of enemy-making, can be reversed if, for example, the media investigates terrorist attacks to find out if they are false flag operations, expose deception, and keep the ruling elites and their circles accountable, not unlike how the Washington Post covered Watergate in the early 1970s.

The Washington Post did a story about Fred Burks in December 2004. He is a whistleblower and former senior State Department language interpreter to top-level politicians such as President Bill Clinton and President George W. Bush. [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Based on his website that exposes cover-ups, Burks believes that we first need to speak candidly about what's happening in the world at present and move beyond secrecy and fear. He concludes that the more informed we are, the more difficult it will be to perpetuate the deception of any future false flag operations.

Burks supports choices that lead to a more spiritual and purpose-centered life of "Compassion In Action," as referred to by President Bush on December 12, 2002. [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

He also believes that when we walk our talk, we can inspire others to lead in a way that creates a brighter future for all.

To read Burks’ view on what is happening and what we can do about it, see: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Burks’ philosophy resonates with Zwicker’s message about how, by working together in exposing the deception of false flag operations, the media and people from all levels of society can help prevent them, reduce the manufacturing of fear and hate, and improve the human condition. For more information about Zwicker’s book, visit: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

Zwicker will be speaking at the Great Hall at Cooper Union in New York City on September 10th, 2006, a conference where he will be joined with Dr. Robert Bowman and other researchers who are encouraging the media to further learn about false flag operations. For more info: [Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

The_Bammo

09-08-2006, 04:14 PM

Think this article belongs here, John Kerry is a War Vet and he was a Navy Combat Vet as well - he leads this article off !
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Administration still in deep denial about war in Iraq

Cynthia Tucker - Universal Press Syndicate
09.08.06 - "How do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake?" -- John Kerry, 1971
Apparently, the state of denial at the White House is worse than I thought.

In a speech Thursday to the annual convention of the American Legion, President Bush declared that, if the U.S. withdraws from Iraq, "we will face the terrorists in the streets of our own cities. So the United States will not leave until victory is achieved."
He didn't say what "victory" in Iraq will look like. Given that most of the Iraqi deaths over the past several months have been the result of sectarian conflict, would "victory" require U.S. troops to intervene in a civil war? Nor did the president say how the Iraqi enterprise prevents terrorist plots such as the recently disrupted plan to blow up airliners.
Dick Cheney, meanwhile, still inhabits a lonely planet on which the Iraqis love us. And Donald Rumsfeld, speaking to the Legionnaires earlier, likens anyone who questions an open-ended U.S. commitment in Iraq -- a group that now includes several Republicans in Congress -- to the Nazi appeasers of the 1930s.
"It was a time when a certain amount of cynicism and moral confusion set in among Western democracies," Rumsfeld said of the years preceding World War II. "When those who warned about a coming crisis, the rise of fascism and Nazism, they were ridiculed or ignored. Indeed, in the decades before World War II, a great many argued that the fascist threat was exaggerated. ...
"With the growing lethality and the increasing availability of weapons, can we truly afford to believe that somehow, some way, vicious extremists can be appeased?"
That pronouncement is packed with so much nonsense that trying to defuse it would cause a minor explosion. Suffice it to say that this administration has no intention of owning up to the awful realities of its misguided invasion of Iraq. Indeed, it's now clear that Karl Rove intends to duplicate for the current campaign season the fear-mongering, name-calling tactics he used successfully in earlier campaigns.
The president and his proxies, including Rumsfeld, are fanning out across the nation to try to scare the voters, once again, into voting Republican. As they've done before, they're conflating Iraq and 9/11, denouncing their critics as cowards and making up facts to fit their story line.
Those tactics may not work so well this time around. It's hard to persuade voters to disregard the video footage of daily carnage in Iraq, the disintegration of Lebanon or Iraqis marching in support of Hezbollah. Recent polls show that a majority of voters no longer believe in Bush's favorite fallacy -- linking the so-called war on terror with the invasion of Iraq.
But the White House shows few signs of acknowledging reality. Bush says we can't withdraw because the sacrifices of the men and women in uniform who have already died there -- more than 2,600 so far -- would be in vain. More Americans must die, it seems, because so many have already died -- a pernicious bit of circular reasoning.
So, for now, tens of thousands of soldiers, sailors and Marines are stuck in a quagmire. When the Pentagon announced last month that it would call up Marine reservists, one veteran declared the move "one of the last steps before resorting to a draft." Jon Soltz, an Army captain who has served in Iraq and now heads a group called VoteVets.org, which raises money for the political campaigns of veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan, said: "This move should serve as a wake-up call to America. ... Our military is overextended, and there is no plan for victory in Iraq."
Writing in on The Blotter, an ABC News blog, last month, a current soldier supported that view. "I think it is only a matter of time before there is a draft," Tony wrote. "I am currently deployed to Iraq and have been in the military for 13 years. All of us who have been in for more than 10 years have seen such a gradual decline in the quality of soldier.
"Each division in the military is deploying to either Iraq or Afghanistan every other year, mine included. No one wants to be in anymore so the older guys looking to retire are saying forget this." Instead of looking squarely at that, some neoconservatives are advocating a new war -- an attack on Iran. I'd like to think they're just saber-rattling, but I remember thinking the same thing around Labor Day four years ago. Perhaps that rattling noise isn't their sabers but their brains.

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101Scout

10-25-2006, 08:27 PM

Think this article belongs here, John Kerry is a War Vet and he was a Navy Combat Vet as well - he leads this article off !
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Administration still in deep denial about war in Iraq

So, for now, tens of thousands of soldiers, sailors and Marines are stuck in a quagmire.

I wonder what change of plans the BushHouse has for this lie war now bro? Now Georgie boy says he didn't really say 'Stay the Course' for 3+ years. The chickenshit ignorant ass now tries to have us believe that their new plans in the making.... to adjust and win this shithole wasted war. Yeah, we know better don't we bro? Same same bullshit lies as always. That's all that our history has held for Americans... asshole politicians who continue to lie out their sorry ass.

BushCo got what they wanted out of Iraq.... beaucoup $$$$$$$$$$$ and a nation who will now kill each other off while US Coalition troops secretly and quietly man the borders of Syria and Iran to watch the coming fireworks dropped from the sky.

Revolt against the NeoCons .... the true ChickenShitHawk Lifers!!!!!

Acebass

10-28-2006, 02:38 PM

I am a Vietnam Vet :viking[1]: , liberal and stunch Democrat. What Bush has done to this country and our Troops and civilians in Iraq is a pure crime...

Crazy Guggenheim

10-28-2006, 07:25 PM

I am a Vietnam Vet :viking[1]: , liberal and stunch Democrat. What Bush has done to this country and our Troops and civilians in Iraq is a pure crime...

101Scout

10-29-2006, 09:29 AM

I am a Vietnam Vet :viking[1]: , liberal and stunch Democrat. What Bush has done to this country and our Troops and civilians in Iraq is a pure crime...

Nice to see a brother vet show up in here. Do you see any similarities with the Iraq and Vietnam wars? If so, care to share with us what some of those similarities are?

Christine

10-29-2006, 09:58 AM

I wonder what change of plans the BushHouse has for this lie war now bro? Now Georgie boy says he didn't really say 'Stay the Course' for 3+ years. The chickenshit ignorant ass now tries to have us believe that their new plans in the making.... to adjust and win this shithole wasted war. Yeah, we know better don't we bro? Same same bullshit lies as always. That's all that our history has held for Americans... asshole politicians who continue to lie out their sorry ass.

BushCo got what they wanted out of Iraq.... beaucoup $$$$$$$$$$$ and a nation who will now kill each other off while US Coalition troops secretly and quietly man the borders of Syria and Iran to watch the coming fireworks dropped from the sky.

Revolt against the NeoCons .... the true ChickenShitHawk Lifers!!!!!

Scout....I believe that he knows full well that our troops are in dire straits over there. I believe he knows full well that they are sitting ducks. I believe he knows full well that Americans for the most part are against this war. I believe that he knows full well what he has done to our country. He just doesn't give a flying fuck...what I wonder about is will he have their loyalty if the day should ever come that he turns their guns on us?

101Scout

10-31-2006, 03:21 PM

Scout....I believe that he knows full well that our troops are in dire straits over there. I believe he knows full well that they are sitting ducks. I believe he knows full well that Americans for the most part are against this war. I believe that he knows full well what he has done to our country. He just doesn't give a flying fuck...what I wonder about is will he have their loyalty if the day should ever come that he turns their guns on us?

Christine, your concerns of this nature are very warranted. It's a very good question for which can only be answered at the time they (military/police) are asked to turn their guns on their own.

In the meantime as we second guess what may be, and based on the (ever growing) new age (NWO) military industrial complex now taking place today, I feel that we'll have up and coming generations of 'enforcers' that will find it as their duty under executive orders to turn their weapons on Americans..... those who dissent against a BushConic regime. Just as they accept the Neocons 'police action' as a way of life, and more than anything, become use to it all, it will probably become as the accepted mentality of most (enforcers) to follow orders against 'anyone' that is deligated as the 'enemy' to the Neocon regime. Anyone! Never forget what fuels mankind to acts of maddness.... MONEY! Or the lack of. While future times become more difficult, desperation replaces common decency and respect for fellow man. Money will 'become' just that important for most of those who'll support the NWO movement during such desperate times.

As a foot note, we've yet to see any widespread repercussions within our society with any notable results in what the Afghan/Iraq war has done to any troops who'll be returning from Iraq and Afghanistan (and other future spreading conflicts). That's still on the horizon. IMHO, those troops will eventually 'act out' their haunts / fantasies as their control over it gradually deminishes. I remember back when Nam Vets returned home... society tagged us with the word 'rage'.... or simply being Nam crazies. Many of us fought hard to restrain oursleves from the 'urges' to act out. Isolation helped. Substance use also helped to numb us long enough to postpone such 'acts'. But then sometimes, suicide or other acts eventually won out. Always keep in mind that with most veterans who have seen action for any lenght of time, death means nothing. Both giving and receiving. That's the general mindset of war vets, that stays a powerful force for a long long time.

This goes without including civilians who also grow up very accustomed to our western religous mentality that supports 'forcing' democracy onto other cultures. Since Bush I's dance in Iraq during the early '90s and now our last 4 years of BushII invasions, many in our society have and still are growing very accustomed to the ways of war..... as life.... the mentality. The longer our society is exposed to war as being part of life, the more 'forced' violence becomes less shocking. Many young kids today will find things or acts associated with war as being attractive or cool just as they would see the president as the mighty 'ass kicker' along with viewing his administration as the 'team'. Think just how they will mature with thinking as a very young adult. The conditioning of our mindset.

Also keep in mind, as the economy continues to choke under this BushConic rule..... many troops will turn to being employed by PMFs or simply remain with stateside govt agencies / military service for their paychecks to 'serve up' damage control over a growing chaos of desperate people in America. All one has to ask themselves is, will these future enforcers have a conscience to do the right thing or not with mostly 'easy' targets before them upon after obtaining the mindset under our current BushCons? We'd hope that they'd chose the right thing. But, IMHO, I think many on the receiving end of such repercussions will be very disappointed by such hope.

:icon_frown:

101Scout

11-05-2006, 03:28 PM

If in any case anyone here in DW, of which I doubt, have doubts that we went to Iraq with enough troops, this aticle below should help dispel any myths about that.

So what if it should have initially took 400,000 troops for Iraq, think what Iran would require. What..... 1.3 million troops initially? N Korea... 800,000 troops initially? Well shucks, lets just use 200,000 troops for each and drop 2 trillion tons of bombs on both and just peter around like we did in Afghanistan and Iraq for as long as we can before the nuke fumes gets to everybody.

Sure it'll cost American taxpayers approx $ 3 trillion to do all of that, but hey, what the hell.... right?

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2006-11-04

Secret War Games Showed 400,000 Troops Needed To Invade, Hold Iraq

A series of secret U.S. war games in 1999 showed that an invasion and post-war administration of Iraq would require 400,000 troops, nearly three times the number there now.

And even then, the games showed, the country still had a chance of dissolving into chaos.

In the simulation, called Desert Crossing, 70 military, diplomatic and intelligence participants concluded the high troop levels would be needed to keep order, seal borders and take care of other security needs.

The documents came to light Saturday through a Freedom of Information Act request by George Washington University's National Security Archive, an independent research institute and library.

"The conventional wisdom is the U.S. mistake in Iraq was not enough troops," said Thomas Blanton, the archive's director. "But the Desert Crossing war game in 1999 suggests we would have ended up with a failed state even with 400,000 troops on the ground."

There are about 144,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, down from a peak in January of about 160,000.

A week after the invasion, in March 2003, the Pentagon said there were 250,000 U.S. ground force troops inside Iraq, along with 40,000 coalition force troops.

A spokeswoman for the U.S. Central Command, which sponsored the seminar and declassified the secret report in 2004, declined to comment Saturday because she was not familiar with the documents.

101Scout

12-02-2006, 07:34 PM

This is something that's pissed me off about these Repugs in forums and news programs who blabbered over and over for 3-4 years now about those fighting the US military in Iraq were 'insurgents'. How many times has it been called 'insurgents'? I bet I've heard it a 1000 times. I'd say to those who thot they were some military experts back then, that it's bullshit! I'm not military expert, or military historian, but being that I've been there and done that in another war, based on my gut know how, I'd say that there's some insurgency coming into Iraq but the majority of the fighters in Iraq were Iraqi militants and resisters to the occupiers. Militants who were and are from IRAQ! In my opinion, an insurgency my pick up if and when the US invades one of the neighboring countries to Iraq.

Anybody else in DW agree with me about that? It's your opinion, don't be afraid to share what you want to with me.

big sky brad

12-03-2006, 04:48 AM

101Scout

12-03-2006, 04:21 PM

Most of the insurgent forces in Iraq is made up of Iraqi citizens.
Only 2-3% of those fighting the American and Iraqi troops are outsiders who have filtered in from surrounding countries like Iran, Syria, or even from Saudi Arabia.

General Abizaid went before the Senate Armed Services Committee just before Thanksgiving last month and testified that only 2-3% of those fighting against us were foreigners who have filtered into Iraq.

There's a lot more here from General Abizaid's testimony -
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Thanks big sky, because your report supported these in country militia facts more than what I had. On CNN last night, they interviewed this one guy (didn't catch his name) who told CNN that there were at least 80% Iraqi militias fighting US forces.... possibly 90%. Yet most bush brainwashed idiots still use the words.... 'insuuuurgents'. Of course they keep saying so to back up Bushie's false claims that Iran and Syria pumping beaucoup fighters into Iraq. Thing is... one day that may happen as the borders start to disappear once the US gets it on with Syria and Iran.

Interesting cluster fuck setting up with the Saudis saying that they plan to back the Sunnis in Iraq. Hummmmm.... Syria population is 75% Sunni.... and have Baathist personnel. The Saudis want to help the Sunnis in Iraq because of Iran's Shias and the Shias outnumbering the Sunnis in Iraq. BushCo hates Syria... Iran... yet loves Saudi Arabia. Yeah... who the hell is on first??? Once the Saudis joins the death dance in Iraq.... those borders will start melting away. Wonder if BushCo will actually funnel 'our' money into the House of Saud for this? Maybe not at first... but by mid '07 I could see that happening.

Hey I wonder how ole Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani over his Shias in Iraq will take this news of the Saudis arming the Sunnis also? If he starts chanting 'kill kill kill' then Iraq will get blistering hot really quick.

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02/12/2006

The Saudis are understood to be considering providing Sunni military leaders with funding, logistical support and even arms, as Iran already does for Shia militia in Iraq.

The strategy — outlined in an article last week by Nawaf Obaid, a senior security adviser to the kingdom's government — risks spiralling into a proxy war between Saudi and Iranian-backed factions in the next development in Iraq's vicious sectarian conflict.

Saudi Arabia, America's closest ally in the Arab world, is considering backing anti-US insurgents because it is so alarmed that Sunnis in Iraq will be left to their fate — military and political — at the hands of the Shia majority.

big sky brad

12-04-2006, 02:02 AM

Adding to that - Iran is 98% Shia, so they are going to support the Shia majority of the Iraq population.

Every other Muslim country in the Middle East around Iraq and Iran have populations that the majority of the people are Sunni.

So, it doesn't matter if we pull out in 6 months or in 6 years - whenever it is we actually do pull out - they are going to go at each other's throats the likes of which have never been seen before in modern times.

Iraq was a country that was made up of a hodgepodge of disjoint religious and ethnic factions that don't get along. They have a 1300 year history of killing each other. That's why it took a strong leader, a dictator like Saddam, to keep that country held together.

Bush didn't understand that is why dictators rise to power in the first place; he didn't understand that removing Saddam would create a leadership vacuum in Iraq.

101Scout

12-04-2006, 03:48 PM

Adding to that - Iran is 98% Shia, so they are going to support the Shia majority of the Iraq population.

I wonder have many millions (Syria and Iran) that equates to that wants to smash BushForce?

Question: Prior to the BushI invasion of Iraq in '91..... lets say 1970s until 1990, how was relations between Syria and Iran being one mostly Sunni and the other mostly Shia?

The_Bammo

12-05-2006, 03:44 PM

I am almost at the point where I say we unilaterally withdraw our forces and leave Iraq to be the slaughter ground of Shia-Sunni hatred.

I been at that point since the beginning of this BS. But we let the "SHRUB" invade them illegaly - based on lies. So give them 6-9 months of so called wasted trainin' - arm them - not to heavy because they might be used on us and cut the kite string and see where the SOB will fly.

As far as the "SHRUB" and his chickenhawk regime - bring them all involved up on war crimes, no pardons, no forgiveness, fair trial and if prosecuted - make it stick. Lot of blood on the Neocons mitts. The blood that gets to me the most is American. But they should be made to pay for all the blood, and there is enough to go around for all of those SOB'S!

Then we have the damage factor to compute which should be a stun gun of a number of piaster. ($$$)

Hang Tough~

The_Bammo

12-05-2006, 03:47 PM

I am a Vietnam Vet :viking[1]: , liberal and stunch Democrat. What Bush has done to this country and our Troops and civilians in Iraq is a pure crime...

Found a clown for DW I see. You certainly got a pro in ol' Acebass --damn!
Not even worth the post =---disregard the SOB.

101Scout

12-09-2006, 06:45 PM

Yeah.. looks like the 'suck' assman made it's way into DW bro. I think BJ chopped his sorry head off some time ago tho. Heck I didn't get a chance to kick his necon balls up into his weaslized brain.

:_smack_: :_smack_: :_smack_: :_smack_:

101Scout

12-15-2006, 08:09 PM

Here ya go Vets! More 'Red' Joe sucking ups to the GOP, and in this case, McCains call for more troops in Iraq. Check it out in this article where a Repuke (Collins) says they are wrong! That's pretty bad when some Republicans are able to see the bullshit handwriting on the wall and Dems like Red Joe just keeps on sucking on Bush Balls!! FUCK YOU JOE! Strap on some combat boots and take a long hike in Iraq you piece of worthless shit!

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Dec. 14, 2006

BAGHDAD, Iraq - Sen. John McCain took his controversial proposal for curbing Iraq's sectarian violence to Baghdad on Thursday, calling for an additional 15,000 to 30,000 U.S. troops and joining a congressional delegation in telling Iraq's prime minister he must break his close ties with a radical Shiite cleric.

Two other senators in the delegation, Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., and Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said they agreed.

"We need more, not less, U.S. troops here," Lieberman said.

Another senator in the group, moderate Republican Susan Collins of Maine, disagreed.

"Iraq is in crisis. The rising sectarian violence threatens the very existence of Iraq as a nation," she said. The current U.S. strategy in Iraq has failed, but "I'm not yet convinced that additional troops will pave the way to a peaceful Iraq in a lasting sense," Collins said.

"My fear is that if we have more troops sent to Iraq that we will just see more injuries and deaths, that we might have a short term impact, but without a long-term political settlement," she said.